KARMA

Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid

Yeah I don't see how, ....

Speaking of not being able to force another to share ones reality with them, I thought I added you to may ignore list. Why am I still seeing your posts?

Oh, yeah, I must apologize to Uday_Advaita, as the topic of discussion in this thread is Karma and I am getting off the point.
Very well then, "What heinous act did I commit in a previous life to deserve this?"

BTW, In another thread I had noticed you mentioned that you had been banned from the other forum that you previously frequented.
Just out of curiosity, which forum was that?
Perhaps you could provide a link?

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

TLV, hello there.
You are right that rape is never acceptable morally. You're right that there is an underlying truth, or morality, that we (humanity) are still in process of apprehending in its barest and simplest outlines.
But you are wrong that rape is a rare occurrence. Rape and sexual assault are commonplace in all societies. And even in Western societies, it is well-known that out of 1000 rapes, only a handful will be prosecuted, with only a literal few (2-3) resulting in a guilty verdict. Men can and do rape, assault, and coerce women sexually with abandon and with a near-100% certainty of no repercussions. There apparently is no stigma so long as a man can cast a woman as a "prostitute" or otherwise disparage her character. The visceral hatred of too many runs so deep that they foam at the mouth at the thought of women getting their comeuppance through rape, so it's no work at all for any one man to simply slur a woman's character, cast her in a poor light and be done with it. It's more or less the same tired story each time.

Yeah, no, I'm gonna stop you right there. Like 90% of what you are saying is tumblr and youtube Feminist propaganda. The rape rates are nowhere near as bad as the feminists claim. Especially the college campus statistic is complete bull****. Half the time these supposed statistics would imply that everybody and their momma has been raped like 1 out of 10 men you see are a Rapist and it's ALWAYS skewed to paint the narrative that "Men are Rapists".

Ironically this issue has always been that women redirect attention from themselves. If a female teacher molests a minor, she just gets fired... if a man does the same thing he gets slammed with extreme prison time and doesn't make it out because everybody in there... even the worst of the worst in society, want him and will do whatever it takes to make him /dead/. Female rape is practically nonexistent in terms of recognition. Nobody talks about it, rape groups are oriented towards female victims even down to the language and formal forms and I don't need to explain the obvious fact of how out of place and awkward it would be to be a man going to a victim program or whatever and saying he got raped. In some countries "forced to penetrate" isn't legally recognized.

This narrative that countless or a serious amount of rape cases go unpunished is so hilariously ridiculous. Especially when it's tied with an explanation of a conspiracy that people think it's the victim's falt. "Rape Culture" especially, is one of the most bat**** concepts I've ever heard... and if you wanted to talk about cultures revolving around some sort of immorality... how bout we focus on the MUCH MORE real and most certainly much more prevalant Male Violence and Disposability Culture. 90% of media has some form of male on male or just violence happening to males, often with action based stories treating male side characters as canon fodder for the protagonist to kill like they are completely worthless and disposable.

Rapists are an extremely tiny fringe of people, just like serial killers or even just murderers are an extremely tiny amount of people out of everybody. It's not realistic because you have to stop and realize, most people aren't rapists or murderers. Plain and simple. By most I mean OVERWHELMING. It can't be understated or exaggerated. Meanwhile, bull****, people rarely get away with it... and they never do if there is concrete proof. The main pitfall is evidence, feminists are starting a crusade on the right to a just and fair trial because they think people should just be taken at their word. Any rational person knows that these sorts of rights are so important they are worth DYING over, and categorically... dying is worse than rape. I'm not saying you should have to be raped for this right, I'm saying you cannot put your victimhood OVER other people's well being. All you end up doin is victimizing people functionally by screaming that your problems are more important and they need to be sacrificed for your sense of safety or whatever.

Meanwhile when confronted with real world ways of obtaining greater safety... these people scoff and say that the responsibility isn't on them to watch their own ***. That it's on the bad person to not do wrong. Which is so absurdly naive. Yes people aren't supposed to rape, but the whole point is that it's virtually an INEVITABILITY. It's like people obsessed with gun control not realizing that the true enemy is just Chaos itself. You will never be able to stop crazy people from existing, as society and technology currently is. Maybe that will be possible further down the line with Science... yet ironically people blaspheme and underate it's importance when it is no less than vital to everything.

Getting back to the main subject. I'm not saying rape doesn't happen or that when you tally it up, that it's not technically a lot. Because it is. But it's inflated, by the fact that there are /8 billion people in the world/. Contrasted to that, it's practically nobody. Not to mention it's now being even further inflated by changing definitions of what constitutes Rape. If feminazis are labeling everything rape. Making even the slightest hint of Sexual Harassment out to be Rape. Etc. Then it sounds a lot worse than it is.

Many rapes probably now occur in the West outside of marriage but historically this was the primary place it occurred. Marital rape was not even illegal till 30-35 years ago.

See this is what I'm talking about. Stretching back decades ago to talk about the world as it is[That's dog doodoo in terms of logical argument, because the world has always been pretty ****ed up in general IN NOBODY'S FAVOR MALE OR FEMALE. People in the past hardly even knew better, and just in general I tend to see people in the past as categorically "Barbaric and Inferior" to my and newer generations]. Nevermind that you're going into a very nuanced and esoteric definition of Rape. I'm not trying to say it's not rape if you're married. But it also falls under the umbrella of Stockholm situations and you know it's being said under the context that right now new aged peeps think it's rape to have sex with someone who is drunk or that consent is so grey that if she didn't want it but was too "intimidated" or "anxiety" to verbally community that it was rape, etc. These days the definition of Rape is getting too murky and it seems to be a fad to try and stretch just what counts as rape or a lack of consent as thin as possible. If a woman stayed married to the man, didn't even do everything in her power including run away(break the law if necessary), etc. Then she was /complacent/ which is undeniably a form of Consent.

Most people recognize that if a woman keeps going back to a man that rapes her... that it's her fault and she is fully consensual. Because consent must be complicit in the fact that she goes back or stays. And what's ironic about it is... what you are talking about largely isn't because of Patriarchy... or at least not the side of it that favors men. But instead is the aspect of it that Women upheld and often still uphold to this day. In other words the role of the "pampered princess". Every woman has this position in society. To ignore how patriarchy favors women and that it is often the cause of a lot of the suffering of women much like how patriarchy in favor of men is most often the cause of male suffering.

Women WANTED to be treated like pampered princesses. To deny this is to hilariously try to say that the overwhelming majority of people male or female would have that role if they COULD... and undeniably that is what the female gender role in classical gender stereotypism IS. They wanted that role, they wanted the man to do everything for them and it still shows in the vast majority of women in the dating game today. Similar to the Self-Defense thing... women first assert and decide that they are inherently inferior to men. That they are weaker, softer, etc. But this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The princess becomes the damsel in distress, because unlike the Prince... she didn't learn Combat and work out intensely and be at her peak physical condition and intelligence.

Because women CHOOSE to be feminine. You wrote your own destiny from the start. That if men or even other women with power wanted to victimize you, they would be met with very little resistance because you deliberately made yourself fragile instead of Strong. So when I hear about marriage rape 40-50 years ago. I think about how traditional things were back then, and women ATE UP the sexism and embraced, enabled, and consented to just as much as the men who did it to them.

Child brides and marital raping of children is common and even legal worldwide.

I'm surprised someone else is invoking this fact. Until now, I've found myself to be the only one who is aware or honest about this fact. Altho I would nitpick with your choice of the word Worldwide. I think you mean to say that among all the places in the world, there are a couple which are that way. Even outside of legality, you have places like Thailand where child prostitution is common. But you think this is exclusive to females? Again your glaring sexism is absurd especially because of the acute irony that you fail to recognize that Pedophiles come in both Male and Female variant... and even among the men it cannot be overstated how common male on male pedophilia is. Meaning that even if men are doing it, boys are also the victim /undeniably just as much as the girls/. It's not even remotely a female specific problem.

It's a problem of the world being inequal in knowledge and progress and technology. Again women are always much more forgiven for the most extreme of crimes. Which is completely anathema and contradicts the narrative that the courts have it out for women. Just the fact that so many people now are on board with trashing the 1st ammendment as well the right to a fair trial and Due Process. Highlights just how false it has always been, just how entitled women have always been. Entitlement has always been a female thing more than anything. It's why women can stand there mocking men when they seem to have any sense of it at all. Because they would know wouldn't they? They are the MASTERS of entitlement after all... historically speaking.

Women are so entitled that they shot straight past equal rights and went straight to usurping Men's right to fair trial. They think they are entitled to that. Entitled to victimize men because they have a victim complex "first".

Sex trafficking of women and children as slaves is estimated now annually to outnumber the historic peak annual slave population in the Americas.

There it is again, associating women and children. As if children is even remotely weighted one way or the other in regards to Sex. It's not a gender issue, it's a Child issue and a human issue. Period, end of. Also as far as slavery goes in general, sex trafficking is one thing... but slavery in general I am pretty certain they don't have a particular sex they prefer for /labor/. Pretty sure men are just as much a victim there as well, if there WERE a statistical bias... I would first argue that it's likely again due to cultural differences and how men are conditioned to see victimization as something they have the power to stop and control.

This speaks to the reality you experience (where you consider rape or its possibility to be rare), versus the reality that all women experience and/or live with daily as an ever-present occurrence or threat, a perpetual reality-in-the-making.

Ask any woman or child who's dealt with this.

Okay, now it's getting beyond offensive when you speak with posterity of grouping women and children together. Beyond offensive to the countless male victims over the course of human history, including myself.

Anyways lies and misinformation doesn't speak to anything of the sort. What reality? That there is a male rapist around every corner, and you have to be prepared for the nearest man to you to try and rape you? Yeah no, that is absurdly delusional as would be the case if we put too much stock in what women who have been raped and extremely traumatized, percieve. Isn't it odd that it sounds precisely like what female rape victims claim, even though factually speaking the majority of the time... the trauma of rape makes a person disconnected and paranoid, etc.

In other words, it sounds just like the /insanity/ of a trauma victim. Which makes sense given everything I've said, the fact that ultimately most of these so called "facts" have been refuted by countless sources and shown to be little more than the emotional outbursts of 1st world feminazis who want attention, power, and wealth. Who take the deluded and skewed perspective of the rape victim to represent that a rapist is around every corner and thus every woman is at an extremely high likelihood to be raped.

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Speaking of not being able to force another to share ones reality with them, I thought I added you to may ignore list. Why am I still seeing your posts?

So you're pretty much admitting that you have no actual intellectual authority here, no actual credibility or legitimacy to your arguments? I say that because if someone actually knows what they are talking about, as in they studied and learned or even performed experiments themselves. They will not simply fold and claim "subjectivity". No scientist claims subjectivity, to do so would admit defeat/forfeit... and in the bigger picture would pretty much be to think that Science isn't true... as it is by definition Objectivity. Or at least that is one of it's most central tenets.

A scientist does not say "You are free to have your opinion, and me mine." and such a claim does absolutely nothing to the fact of the truth. Creationists are free to be bat**** insane, but they are not free to claim that it is false that they are bat**** insane. Or at least, not free to claim so without being shown to be wrong, because the evidence undeniably proves them to be wrong.

A debate does not go away, you do not get to wave the white flag and claim neutrality all of a sudden when you take intellectual positions on things. The white flag is reserved for the Agnostic, you are not claiming to not believe one way or the other so you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You are claiming you are confident in your position.

To an observing eye. You are GIVING me the "Win".

[Altair]

7L..
Thanks for the summary of the concepts..

I agree they are all rather problematic. Utilitarianism is something I tend to dislike, because it’s not only non-spiritual but also careless. A utility approach to people and the enviromment is very troubling but unfortunately very common. The environment for instance is often reduced to whatever economic “use” it has (“resources”/“ecosystem services”) to people, which has led to very destructive and careless treatment of it and of living beings. This is a much deeper issue that is also closely linked to popular religion and how they view humanity’s place in the world (“king of creation”/“God’s special children”). Now of course we are special ((as are chameleons and oak trees etc.)) but I think we tend to go about that the wrong way..

Relativism can be true at times but all too often gives people lazy excuses, along the lines off “But we can’t say anything about the dog eaters. It’s their culture” and “You can’t criticize female corcumcision, it’s their culture”, as if those people or the dogs have no feelings or can’t suffer as soon as they exist in a different human society. But yeah, can’t criticize.. the powerful are entitled and all of that.

The suffering is universal and can be observed..
Context exists but is no cheap sofa for relaxation..

There might be contextual differences, cases of “We need to survive, it’s our last hope” and “Our army needs to make a move to protect the innocent people” but these extreme cases do not change the norms, and THAT is something that is sadly missed too often. Also, if we need to rely on violence it probably tells us something about our own karma as well, hopelessly stuck in those chains. Some people think relativism is intellectually clever but it’s not, it’s often lazy..!!

If an action causes suffering than it creates karma, and so does a ‘beneficial’ or ‘loving’ action, apparently! So we’re left with the question what karma do we wish to reap..? I wonder how one can even transcend the good karma. At least, in Buddhism and Jainism it’s said that too much good karma means an incarnation into a heavenly realm, yet no enlightenment. Just a lot of luxury and enjoyment. Perhaps that is why monks meditate so much... generate all the collected good karma straight to divinity..?? Makes sense..

[Altair]

@TerramineLightvoid..

You are accusing women of being responsible for getting raped and ''choosing'' to be feminine.
That is both sad and ridiculous..

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Altair

7L..
Thanks for the summary of the concepts..

I agree they are all rather problematic. Utilitarianism is something I tend to dislike, because it’s not only non-spiritual but also careless. A utility approach to people and the enviromment is very troubling but unfortunately very common. The environment for instance is often reduced to whatever economic “use” it has (“resources”/“ecosystem services”) to people, which has led to very destructive and careless treatment of it and of living beings. This is a much deeper issue that is also closely linked to popular religion and how they view humanity’s place in the world (“king of creation”/“God’s special children”). Now of course we are special ((as are chameleons and oak trees etc.)) but I think we tend to go about that the wrong way..

Hello there Altair -- you're quite welcome
I too have a particular aversion to utilitarianism particularly as you describe it, in its amoral form...where the ends justify the means, according to our whim, to our "determination" of what is of the "greatest" or "best" utility. In nearly all cases, it does not align with the greatest good of all humanity, nor with sustainability, nor much less with of all Gaia or of all that is.

Relativism can be true at times but all too often gives people lazy excuses, along the lines off “But we can’t say anything about the dog eaters. It’s their culture” and “You can’t criticize female corcumcision, it’s their culture”, as if those people or the dogs have no feelings or can’t suffer as soon as they exist in a different human society. But yeah, can’t criticize.. the powerful are entitled and all of that.

The suffering is universal and can be observed..
Context exists but is no cheap sofa for relaxation..

Relativism, like amorality, is lazy because it lacks the capacity for discernment according to what is right-aligned or misaligned.
It is lazy by mandate and cannot be other than what it is.
With discernment regarding right-alignment comes the most basic and innate wisdom, which allows for taking choices AND taking ownership of said choices. No matter how limited or conscripted our physical or social environment appears to be, there are always choices to be had. For example, even in the most egregiously brutal or oppressive situations where the choice is do or die, we still have a choice -- and BTW death is not the worst option and may be the far better choice. George Carlin had a whole monologue about this in his later years -- it was powerful and I highly recommend.

There might be contextual differences, cases of “We need to survive, it’s our last hope” and “Our army needs to make a move to protect the innocent people” but these extreme cases do not change the norms, and THAT is something that is sadly missed too often. Also, if we need to rely on violence it probably tells us something about our own karma as well, hopelessly stuck in those chains. Some people think relativism is intellectually clever but it’s not, it’s often lazy..!!

Yes, agreed. It does. And it says we are not there yet. We still cannot accept What Is nor even our fellow human beings but instead need to (attempt) to control and cherry-pick the universe as if a pitiful, derivative, stunted thing of soley our own stunted creation could ever compare. It would be hell...and so long as we use our power to inflict pain and suffering on the weaker and the more vulnerable in this futile effort to be our own twisted notion of GOD, of One -- the pitiful irony is that we cannot see that we are the primary source of our own hell and suffering, as well as theirs.

If an action causes suffering than it creates karma, and so does a ‘beneficial’ or ‘loving’ action, apparently! So we’re left with the question what karma do we wish to reap..? I wonder how one can even transcend the good karma. At least, in Buddhism and Jainism it’s said that too much good karma means an incarnation into a heavenly realm, yet no enlightenment. Just a lot of luxury and enjoyment. Perhaps that is why monks meditate so much... generate all the collected good karma straight to divinity..?? Makes sense..

Yes. Good karma doesn't generate enlightenment until you choose to dedicate the merit of all you do to the highest good of all. Directly to one and all and to One and All. And mean it ;)

Good karma isn't a reward per se...it's an opportunity! For grace and service. At least a fair bit of that being service on behalf of amends making for all past. Humility, contrition, repentence, forgiveness. All of that, as well as loving and serving the neighbour , the vulnerable, and the stranger amongst us.

As ever, it is all about intention and choice.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Altair

@TerramineLightvoid..

You are accusing women of being responsible for getting raped and ''choosing'' to be feminine.
That is both sad and ridiculous..

Agreed, Altair.
The degree of misogyny reflected in TSV's post is so extreme, and his rejection of basic facts on the ground so complete, that there is little to no common ground upon which to dialogue or respond.

He could simply say he doesn't agree but without clearly stating that women who are raped or abused deserve it and it's also their fault if they are not as tall, big, strong, and powerful as men However, he's done us the great kindness of making his fear and loathing as transparent as possible, and for that, I must thank him for removing all doubt

This is of course, inflammatory and extreme, and goes against the reality on the ground, in which women are built entiredly differently and are not as tall, big, strong, or powerful.

I further observe that his tone toward me reflects a pattern, as he has been similarly uncivil, and unnecessarily aggressive, in his responses to you and others. In TSV's aggressive and hostile response, his courtesy to me simply as a person is lacking. Civil discourse is difficult at best in with such person.

I will not respond. It is RARE that I would say this, but...what's the point? At this time and place, in this now moment, I don't think there's much else to say to someone that says you (a woman, and all women) deserve to be raped and it's your fault you're weaker and more vulnerable -- too bad, so sad.

I think someone who would say such a thing in close response to the woman earlier who actually said she had been repeatedly raped has himself committed an unspeakably vile act against that woman and all women really. And all young women, and all girls...they're all asking for it, right? All of them.

I'll leave it right there. I pity TSV. But I also don't wish to engage further with this level of misogyny and hatred. And I thank you for your courtesy and decency, on behalf of the other half of the sky.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I will not respond. It is RARE that I would say this, but...what's the point? At this time and place, in this now moment, I don't think there's much else to say to someone that says you (a woman, and all women) deserve to be raped and it's your fault you're weaker and more vulnerable -- too bad, so sad.

Well now, brevity has never been my strong suit, but for once I believe I managed to say the same thing with far less words. I simply placed a name on my ignore list.

But I do appreciate all you have said here, and particularly the line I included above. I think it shows in action the principal I tried to explain in an earlier post. We all create our own realities, and one can create a reality for themselves in which rape is perfectly acceptable. However, one is likely to find themselves alone in such a reality as most (unfortunately one can't say all) are going to be unwilling to share this reality with them. And so we see one more person shake their head and choose to move on rather then engage.

If nobody ever wants to come into ones house, perhaps it needs a good cleaning out.

[Altair]

I do think it could be good if more women did self defence, if not just to feel more confident and assertive, though realistically a serious predator will often have his way unfortunately - whether you're woman or man - and will pick his right moment and then it's often too late. Reducing that chance by taking up self defence could help but percentage wise I'm not sure how much. Being a tall, muscular woman might help but not every woman can achieve that. It also begs the question why this should even be necessary. It's like saying we better all start carrying a gun everywhere for self defence. What sort of a society does this create? More fear, and a sense of a short term solution..

But whether one takes up a self defence course or not, women are generally easier targets, so this notion that they're just entitled princesses choosing to be weak and feminine is outlandish. I think it would also help to anyone in the dark is to understand that many women live with the stress of being targeted on a frequent basis. It's why men and women also have different spatial behaviour patterns in cities and during travels. I've seen men, one guy even did it in the presence of women, making the same arguments as TLV did, and it just shows they don't have female friends or ever talked about it with women..

But considering the topic is ''karma'' () possibly we transform it by understanding things and not by staying in an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth perspective. The cycle of ignorance and hatred can only be broken with understanding and kindness, so more self defence (and possibly carrying a gun or knife at all times) doesn't lead to proper development to a better society, nor does it lead us to tackling the root of the problem here..

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by Altair

@TerramineLightvoid..

You are accusing women of being responsible for getting raped and ''choosing'' to be feminine.
That is both sad and ridiculous..

If you want to Red Herring and Strawman Fallacy my words, aka putting words in my mouth, then sure.