Dark Strange Worlds.

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Who is this observer guy?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorz.../#357963506f21
" observers are central to both the Copenhagen and Many-Worlds interpretations."

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Oh well, we're living in a world where a narcissistic assclown who kicks a ball for a few hours gets paid more than your average humble doctor who literally works their #ss off trying to heal people and save lives. If you put that on a par with the fact that I feel disconnected from this world and it's societies in which I don't fit in, you can't really blame me, can you?

I don't know if the "average humble doctor literally works their #ss off trying to heal people". They may work very hard but I am not aware of any who have lost their posterior in the process.

The problem with such comparisons is that we are comparing apples with oranges. And we are not comparing all apples, but just the very elite few. Many professional sportspeople would earn far less. The same goes for musicians. Many professional musicians would earn a fairly average wage. It is just the elite few who make millions. It is an emotive issue to compare these with doctors and nurses, but the comparison is of limited value.

You seem to see the world in very black and white terms. For some of us it is all shades of grey. If you really don't believe in a meaning behind anything then you would not get so worked up about all the things you dislike.

Peace

[Altair]

Originally Posted by iamthat

It is just the elite few who make millions.

Haha you must not be following football, then many non-Europeans are usually not familiar with the wealth and power of this sport.

There's the top elites that earn 100k-400k euro in a single week!!!! And then you have quite a large percentage of players that earn somewhere between 10k and 100k a week. We're talking thousands of players. It is a very lucrative sport and many clubs are owned by some of the wealthiest people on the planet, even entire states such as the Emirates and Qatar. Then there's referees are flown in to those states and they make tens of thousands refereeing a meaningless match in a 5000 seater stadium in the desert. And in some leagues, many players have been quite unwilling to receive less pay now with the coronavirus. No clubs play and no revenue is made at the moment so that's very greedy if you look at what they earn.

Just something I thought I'd share..

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

Haha you must not be following football, then many non-Europeans are usually not familiar with the wealth and power of this sport.

There's the top elites that earn 100k-400k euro in a single week!!!! And then you have quite a large percentage of players that earn somewhere between 10k and 100k a week. We're talking thousands of players. It is a very lucrative sport and many clubs are owned by some of the wealthiest people on the planet, even entire states such as the Emirates and Qatar. Then there's referees are flown in to those states and they make tens of thousands refereeing a meaningless match in a 5000 seater stadium in the desert. And in some leagues, many players have been quite unwilling to receive less pay now with the coronavirus. No clubs play and no revenue is made at the moment so that's very greedy if you look at what they earn.

Just something I thought I'd share..

I don't disagree with you. Football is a very wealthy game. But when we include all professional footballers, not just the elite in the top divisions, then the average salary plummets. And the career for any such professional footballer is perhaps 10-15 years if they avoid injury.

So any salary comparisons between doctors and professional sportspeople should include all such players, not just those at the top.

Peace

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I don't know if the "average humble doctor literally works their #ss off trying to heal people". They may work very hard but I am not aware of any who have lost their posterior in the process.

The problem with such comparisons is that we are comparing apples with oranges. And we are not comparing all apples, but just the very elite few. Many professional sportspeople would earn far less. The same goes for musicians. Many professional musicians would earn a fairly average wage. It is just the elite few who make millions. It is an emotive issue to compare these with doctors and nurses, but the comparison is of limited value.

You seem to see the world in very black and white terms. For some of us it is all shades of grey. If you really don't believe in a meaning behind anything then you would not get so worked up about all the things you dislike.

Peace

I don't really see this as comparing apples with oranges. You speak about an 'elite few' as if they are more significant than the average joe. Well, not from my perspective. And I don't even follow soccer, but I've already seen too many of those elites who think the world is all about them. It's not about seeing 'black and white' but about realism. But you know what, you are right. I don't even care as I've already got my hands full with other stuff atm. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to hand out my judgment on said topics...

[Altair]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I don't disagree with you. Football is a very wealthy game. But when we include all professional footballers, not just the elite in the top divisions, then the average salary plummets. And the career for any such professional footballer is perhaps 10-15 years if they avoid injury.

So any salary comparisons between doctors and professional sportspeople should include all such players, not just those at the top.

Peace

I'm pretty sure an average professional player earns a lot compared to the average citizen. True, it's a short career and many of them won't be top coaches. I'm not against wealth gaps in general ((and it's in part a reflection of consumer demands)) but I think football has become ridiculous and out of control and it has ruined the competitiveness of the game ((oligopolies are the reality)).

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

...But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to hand out my judgment on said topics...

Of course you have a right to make judgement. We all have to make many judgments just to get through the day, even if we are not always aware we are doing so.
That said, judgments generally mean we are comparing something to some other something that is serving as our standard of what should be. This is better, this is not, this is good, this is bad, all are relative to our standards.
It is important to balance our standing over things and judging them with standing under them to gain in our understanding and continually question and shape that model of what should be.
If we judge everything in the world against our own self created model of what we are sure everything should be, without remembering that we don't really know what should be, few things are likely to measure up and we will look around and find the world we are in to be a dark strange place.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Of course you have a right to make judgement. We all have to make many judgments just to get through the day, even if we are not always aware we are doing so.
That said, judgments generally mean we are comparing something to some other something that is serving as our standard of what should be. This is better, this is not, this is good, this is bad, all are relative to our standards.
It is important to balance our standing over things and judging them with standing under them to gain in our understanding and continually question and shape that model of what should be.
If we judge everything in the world against our own self created model of what we are sure everything should be, without remembering that we don't really know what should be, few things are likely to measure up and we will look around and find the world we are in to be a dark strange place.

Well, the world actually is a rather dark strange place, to put it only mildly. Then again… Humans weren't made to be peaceful, kind, loving, spiritual beings to begin with, as much as the New Agers want that fairytale to be true. Morality doesn't exist neither and is purely a man-made concept. There is no ''should be''. Still, that doesn't stop you from wondering about how ridiculous it all seems in the end.

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well, the world actually is a rather dark strange place, to put it only mildly. Then again… Humans weren't made to be peaceful, kind, loving, spiritual beings to begin with, as much as the New Agers want that fairytale to be true. Morality doesn't exist neither and is purely a man-made concept. There is no ''should be''. Still, that doesn't stop you from wondering about how ridiculous it all seems in the end.

Of course there are "should be"-s. Nearly 7.5 billion. There are any number of emergent should be-s, consensus should be-s, and average should-be-s as well. Well, I suppose technically, they are all emergent should be-s. Why do you say morality doesn't exist and then in the same sentence tell how morality is made? Do man made things not exist?

Yes, my world is a very dark, strange, delightful, beautiful, and wondrous, place and many other adjectives as well. Some might tell you that all the should be-s are not just should be-s but actually are....be-s?. Although not all of them have roast beef....though some might think they should. Anyway, you get to decide in which you will be... or probably more accurately, which will be in you.....well both really. You must be hungry for something in this world, otherwise I suspect you would not have cooked it up the way you did. Hunger is the best seasoning after all, what do you think you might have a taste for? Perhaps you are here to ridicule the world, in which case you got what you ordered, a ridiculous world. Now that is good service! But then they do say if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.

.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well, the world actually is a rather dark strange place, to put it only mildly. Then again… Humans weren't made to be peaceful, kind, loving, spiritual beings to begin with, as much as the New Agers want that fairytale to be true. Morality doesn't exist neither and is purely a man-made concept. There is no ''should be''. Still, that doesn't stop you from wondering about how ridiculous it all seems in the end.

Morality does 'exist', in the minds and acts of moral agents. I think what you may mean is that morality isn't spotted by you (at the moment)?

I'd say morality is relative, not absolute, and very much about what perspective you take. Look at coronavirus. Tough measures protect many people from getting ill, yet it also means many healthy people have to stay mostly at home and many even lose their jobs and income because the economy suffers. All to protect a certain % of society. Damned if we don't make a decision, and damned if we do make a decision. Who's to say what is truly of the light and of the dark when the majority of decisions are grey zone and depend on a specific and limited perspective?