Alternatives to "Experiential Reality"

[Lord_Viskey]

Thank-you for joining the conversation Busby & the comments are indeed, quite thought provoking. You speak of the chasms between word meaning which are, after all, the chagrin of any intelligent species which attempts to communicate through the individuality of their own peculiar symbolism - these them self (at least within the human species), constructed of every "bio-social micro-universe" upon the face of this planet.

(Legrand (above) tells us that he doesn't believe it - he doesn't need to, he knows it.)

Indeed, it was entirely due to my first (mis)interpretation of Legrand's post #4 that caused me to jump back in after posting, to edit in a quick "ah-ha; that's what you really meant" additional line. You see; the words were arranged in such a way as to cause me to first misread them as a "future tense" relation instead of the "present tense" actually applied ... apologies Legrand).

And yet, so as to clarify my own views, I would reiterate that I am with you both in knowing of an "alternative reality" - an alternative "experiential reality" - one that most others might refer to as an "after death" realm, hence my, perhaps, poor choice of words in the headline. Would it be catastrophic to our language, if I were to admit "stretching" definitions so as to apply to "physical perception" and "nonphysical perception" alike?

I think your 'experiential reality' is probably the same as my 'empirical observations' a series of personal intrusions into some sort of accompanying living and intelligent force - one which lies well away from any religious or divine reality.

I intended for my headline to be presented such that we should be able to describe this "other - Alternative to Experiential Reality" using current logic that "empirical observations" have trained us to arrange our perceptions of reality with (back to that dirty word : "objectifying").

For my purposes, I was only inviting other readers to comment on what those experiences were like - through whatever current "mental means" is necessary to express them in this forum thread - including the necessary tool of "imagination".

In taking your "teaser" comment one step further, Busby:

Sixteen times within my long life I have seen (I don't think 'been given') a glimpse of an explanation to this fascinating mystery.

...Would you care to elaborate on any or all of your experiences?

Does anyone else have a perception to share too ?

[Busby]

It was your use of the words 'Experiential Reality' which really caught my eye. I suggested that my version 'Empirical Observations' may be the same thing simply differently projected.
Now I don't think so. Reading through your contributions again I see that our lines diverge significantly slightly enough to differentiate between a 'lived insight' and a reasoned logic.
We all live our lives at various and constantly changing levels of empathy. Your assertion that our five senses are our tools for experiencing the world is the basis (as I understand you) of awareness is naturally true - but too restrictive.
The brain/mind can free itself of the framework set by physical boundaries, this we know from history, the reports of mystics from all over the world, all at different times, old and new reports of cosmic awareness, the whole world of esoteric experience, paranormal occurrences, placebos, hypnosis, OBEs, NDEs, OFOs, and the whole list of similar happenings and events just beg to have an explanation.
So your Experiential Reality also has to include all these diversions - a job for life so to say. I know as I too have spent uncountable hours busying myself with this enigma.
You have started a most fascinating thread, I hope it gathers momentum and throws a few jewels onto the path we are walking.

(Legrand (above) tells us that he doesn't believe it - he doesn't need to, he knows it.)

Originally Posted by Lord_Viskey

Indeed, it was entirely due to my first (mis)interpretation of Legrand's post #4 that caused me to jump back in after posting, to edit in a quick "ah-ha; that's what you really meant" additional line. You see; the words were arranged in such a way as to cause me to first misread them as a "future tense" relation instead of the "present tense" actually applied ... apologies Legrand).

Hello Lord Viskey,

No need for apologies.

Words are only details. I can read your intent behind them. And it's what counts mostly.

Regards,

[Altair]

I don't know what's going to happen to us after death, I do have my beliefs. I'm not too sure consciousness should be singled out as much. The ability to see, the ability to hear, or to smell or touch are also extraordinary. All is pretty bewildering and then there's this I(dentity) [developed over time] that experiences it.

When an individual human is gone the world continues to exist, so reality does exist outside of the observer. Similarly, reality was there before there were humans, or animals, or other lifeforms. Where that leaves us in the grand scheme of things is anyone's guess. I don't think we're all that relevant, with or without an afterlife, god(s), and so forth. There are numerous micro-organisms in my body alone, this thinking 'I' is the one that tells itself it is more important.

[Miss Hepburn]

This is an excellent thread, great posts~! - I will say something when
I'm not distracted and have some coffee in me.

I agree with Legrand - I know some things that are no longer
beliefs...not cuz I'm smart - but was shown;
revealed usually in sudden moments outta the blue..leaving me in awe.

"jewels unto the path..." good one, Busby.


L_V: "I guess that what I'm asking for is not so much "how" - but "to what" have people's
minds opened up to during this considerably "alternative" way of perception."

This helped simplify things, btw. Thank you. And, oh my gosh - I might have to tell you in a PM -
and words are hard to describe.
Also, there are others that may come by that can throw cold water on the Sacred.
Can't have that.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Also, there are others that may come by that can throw cold water on the Sacred.
Can't have that.

Hello Miss Hepburn,

It's hard to receive cold water on the sacred. But I must say that you do expose the sacred in a beautiful way that is nice to read.

Regards,

[Lord_Viskey]

Hello again folks & thank-you for joining in, Altair & Miss Hepburn.

I was focusing on Busby's statement in #12 because this is getting to the heart of the matter, of what is significant to me:

The brain/mind can free itself of the framework set by physical boundaries, this we know from history, the reports of mystics from all over the world, all at different times, old and new reports of cosmic awareness, the whole world of esoteric experience, paranormal occurrences, placebos, hypnosis, OBEs, NDEs, OFOs, and the whole list of similar happenings and events just beg to have an explanation.
So your Experiential Reality also has to include all these diversions - a job for life so to say.

And Altair makes this contribution in #14

I'm not too sure consciousness should be singled out as much. The ability to see, the ability to hear, or to smell or touch are also extraordinary.

These are the key points that enliven the objective of this thread for me.

Now, in regards to these premises, if I may embolden myself to ask : that since we've ascertained there are "alternatives" to how we perceive reality, let's drop the "after-life" qualifier, and move directly to how those (our own personal) perceptions draw meaningful conclusions, images/pictures/experiences, of these "diversions" (Busby) & "consciousness" (Altair) in our "immediate" (i.e.: "recent") awareness.

For instance, in my own exploits, I've experienced certain "realms" where I know that I am detached from my physical body, and have experienced various - if multiple - "otherworldly" places. In these, my mental experiences, I am typically observing myself from just enough "near proximity" to know that there are in fact, at least two bodies that associate me to the experience - one that is the "seer" & one that is being "seen" - by "me" - doing an activity.

What do you suppose, are the implications of having two fields of perception in a "personal/intimate" experience?

Further, but not always - I also "sense" another pair of "entities" at the farthest reach of my peripheral vision to both the left and the right of me. This sensation itself, typically occurs when I am just asleep, while meditations tend to offer just the "two entity" sensation of my experiences. As far as the additional entities in my dream-state goes, they are for the most part always neutral feeling & always just far enough beyond my periphery to not actually see them directly - and this doesn't matter whether I turn my head towards them not. I was told a long time ago, that in the dream-state scenario, I am sensing my "left" and "right" "powers". It actually took an effort in meditation, quite some time later, to finally observe them "fully" for the first time.

...Which leads me to ask about : how many entities are "intimately" associated to anybody else's "out of body experiences" ?

And BTW, as Miss Hepburn suggests: anybody who wants to PM me is cool too...

[Miss Hepburn]

Ok, I'm in a "mood"....ok I have been home enjoying myself as if I'm
in a sort of Magic Kingdom Heaven (future readers -aka, the Coronavirus Lockdown).
My monastic, quiet roots are digging in and putting on bunny slippers.

I'd like to share something pretty profound, but - I don't care about the silly intellectuals that love to come
onto a spiritual thread to toss in doubt and contrary comments for really
no reason other than to throw cold water on people's spirits
and then, think they are in a ring with the referee holding up their gloved hand as if they are the victors;
Much like politicians and their undeveloped, ill equipped 7th grade psyches living in an adult world.


After my many Divine Visitations over decades, my altered states beginning at 8, but really 5,
alone in my mom's red interior '57 Olds 98 - I see there is one reason for all of them:
Divine Love.
Experiencing the Divine Romance is the pinnacle of experiences just as the climax is in human love making.

Sure I can exp the Astral plane, sure I can be transported into galaxies, sure deep insights can be downloaded into
my mind after hours and hours and hours of sitting in meditation ---but, those are nothing.

What is the peak, the crown of my experiences is being lifted into an awareness of
Pure Heart...being immersed in the Divine Love Affair.
(Depicted for human minds in the Radha and Krishna relationship.)

There. Sounds so simple and yet when experienced - is like an atom bomb for the heart and soul ...a bomb that explodes
into a holographic other worldly blossom of Ecstasy;

Our soul in union with our Maker..in a place where there is no space or time.

Miss Hepburn,

I dance with you on this Divine Love.

Thank you for sharing.

I had a tear that flowed from my eye reading you, for it touches something I experience also.

[Lord_Viskey]

ah yes, miss hepburn... always able to ensnare one’s soul with the gossamer webbing of your spirit & hoist them to profound heights that one’s flesh can only envy.

yet, i must still endure the more cumbersome “hours of meditation” to explore galaxies and dimensions alike, when on my own. apparently, i have yet to find my own “autopilot” switch for such endeavors.