Why use God and Lord

ThatMan · #1 22-12-2019, 05:56 PM

Take a look at Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Now, changing those two words we have: Now there was a day when the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh, and Satan came also among them.

The way the words are placed in this statment appears to me as pointing to two different deities, one is Elohim and the other is Yahweh, but even Yahweh is called as being an Elohim.

Psalms 109:26 Help me, O Lord ( Yahweh ) my God ( Elohim ): O save me according to thy mercy:

Look at the whole Job 1 and see how the words are used there, Lord and God, it seems that the Lord talks about God all over the place.

Psalm 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? If the Lord is the God, then why not use "fear You for nought?".

Psalm 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Notice one that feareth God , they way it's said makes me think that the Lord and God are not one and the same, wny not "one that feareth Me?"

Please tell me your view on this.

BigJohn · #2 22-12-2019, 06:09 PM

When the text were translated from Hebrew to Greek, some words were translated even though there were no corresponding Greek words. These words should have come across as share words.

#3 22-12-2019, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Take a look at Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Now, changing those two words we have: Now there was a day when the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh, and Satan came also among them.

The way the words are placed in this statment appears to me as pointing to two different deities, one is Elohim and the other is Yahweh, but even Yahweh is called as being an Elohim.

Psalms 109:26 Help me, O Lord ( Yahweh ) my God ( Elohim ): O save me according to thy mercy:

Look at the whole Job 1 and see how the words are used there, Lord and God, it seems that the Lord talks about God all over the place.

Psalm 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? If the Lord is the God, then why not use "fear You for nought?".

Psalm 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Notice one that feareth God , they way it's said makes me think that the Lord and God are not one and the same, wny not "one that feareth Me?"

Please tell me your view on this.

Hello ThatMan,

I'm not a specialist in the origin of words.

But to my understanding the word fear only came very lately in history, was it not imaginera in latin before?

Then it could be read like this:
Psalm 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job imagine God for nought? If the Lord is the God, then why not use "Imagine You for nought?".

Enjoy!

ThatMan · #4 22-12-2019, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn

When the text were translated from Hebrew to Greek, some words were translated even though there were no corresponding Greek words. These words should have come across as share words.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh, and Satan came also among them.

I understand, but look at how this phrase is composed: the sons of Elohim come to present themselves before Yahweh; if it's the same and one God, why put the words this way?

Psalm 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Here we have the Lord talking about Job who is "one that feareth God", why is He reffering to Himself at the third person? If Yahweh talks about Himself, why not use "one that feareth Me"?

BigJohn · #5 22-12-2019, 06:31 PM

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek, they were using Old Hebrew. Old Old Hebrew does not includes niqqud marks, etc. This anamolity caused a serious problem. As far as I know, the name of God is יְהוָ֔ה in Hebrew which generally is translated as LORD/Jehovah/Yahweh. The translators failed to recognize that in the Masoretic Text. there are at least 7 different spelling and pronunciations of this word which all versions nominally get translated as LORD. For example, the first usage of the word LORD is spelled in Hebrew as יְהוָ֥ה which is spelled slightly different then the name for God in Exodus 6:3.

ThatMan · #6 22-12-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek, they were using Old Hebrew. Old Old Hebrew does not includes niqqud marks, etc. This anamolity caused a serious problem. As far as I know, the name of God is יְהוָ֔ה in Hebrew which generally is translated as LORD/Jehovah/Yahweh. The translators failed to recognize that in the Masoretic Text. there are at least 7 different spelling and pronunciations of this word which all versions nominally get translated as LORD. For example, the first usage of the word LORD is spelled in Hebrew as יְהוָ֥ה which is spelled slightly different then the name for God in Exodus 6:3.

I see, I found some information that in fact El was an ancient cannanite God, and that Elohim/Yahweh are in fact other names for El and that his wife was Asherah. He even had statues and things like that.

Help me understand this, you seem to know so much more.

As I said, I started some time ago to actually study the scriptures with an open mind, going beyond the interpretations of other people.

BigJohn · #7 22-12-2019, 08:11 PM

Sounds like we are cooking.......

Asherah was Yahweh's consort.

Yahweh would be to the left when approaching an entrance whereas Asherah would be to the right.

The Northern Kingdom of Israel's Asherah was different from the other God's consorts being she had an extra appendage between her legs.

ThatMan · #8 22-12-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Sounds like we are cooking.......

Asherah was Yahweh's consort.

Yahweh would be to the left when approaching an entrance whereas Asherah would be to the right.

The Northern Kingdom of Israel's Asherah was different from the other God's consorts being she had an extra appendage between her legs.

How is this even possible.. I heard from you, so to say, this, on another post, and I was really intrigued by this... In the end it seems so man made..

BigJohn · #9 22-12-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh, and Satan came also among them.

I understand, but look at how this phrase is composed: the sons of Elohim come to present themselves before Yahweh; if it's the same and one God, why put the words this way?

Psalm 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Here we have the Lord talking about Job who is "one that feareth God", why is He reffering to Himself at the third person? If Yahweh talks about Himself, why not use "one that feareth Me"?

When I look at the Old Testament, I see various writing styles which mimic various writers and possible compiling problems. For example, sometimes you see the expression Elohim Yahweh and other times you see Yahweh Elohim.

BigJohn · #10 22-12-2019, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatMan

How is this even possible.. I heard from you, so to say, this, on another post, and I was really intrigued by this... In the end it seems so man made..

Archaeological dig sites have 'uncovered' the evidence. 1 Kings and 2 Kings was a civil war. There are rudimentary mentions of Ashersh in those texts but nothing to substantiate what 'really' was going on.