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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 16-07-2020, 02:41 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Despair.

Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageo position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here.

My copy has been lost.
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Old 16-07-2020, 03:43 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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The book is available on archive.org

Don’t know about the passage etc ... haven’t read the book yet
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  #3  
Old 16-07-2020, 07:28 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
The book is available on archive.org. Don’t know about the passage etc ... haven’t read the book yet


Yes I have checked it out on line but cant find the passage. My hope is that someone is familiar with it as it relates to what Niz referred to as a fast realization. He said realization could be fast or slow and that both were appropriate. Its clear what he meant by slow (practise), and it seems like the passsage is an example of what he meant by fast.
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Old 17-07-2020, 04:27 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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fast & slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes I have checked it out on line but cant find the passage. My hope is that someone is familiar with it as it relates to what Niz referred to as a fast realization. He said realization could be fast or slow and that both were appropriate. Its clear what he meant by slow (practise), and it seems like the passsage is an example of what he meant by fast.

I am not sure how niz postulated it . But fast & slow definitely is possible depending on the intensity/purity /clarity of purpose .
Though despair does help realization at times but its not mandatory .

Sorry if felt irrelevant.
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Old 17-07-2020, 04:47 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Emotions of heightened fear & deep despair evidently can be employed according to the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra practice listed at 104 (out of 112)

A translation offered, as understood from Lakshmanjoo’s book:

Vijnana Bhairava Tantra Practice-104/112

Fear & anguish
Dread to perish

Within this sunken vibration
Call out to Shiva with elation
With unwavering focus
Childlike trust the locus
Upon which we cry for assistance
Devoid of any doubt or resistance

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Old 17-07-2020, 08:35 AM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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I'm not sure it's the passage you're thinking of, but I did find a passage along similar lines about a quarter of the way down this webpage:

http://www.byronevents.net/nisargadatta/that9.htm

The passage begins: 'Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru to Guru in search of release.' (I found the passage by searching the webpage for the word 'despair', by pressing CTRL+F and then entering the word in the box that comes up.)
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Old 17-07-2020, 10:35 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
I'm not sure it's the passage you're thinking of, but I did find a passage along similar lines about a quarter of the way down this webpage:

http://www.byronevents.net/nisargadatta/that9.htm

The passage begins: 'Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru to Guru in search of release.' (I found the passage by searching the webpage for the word 'despair', by pressing CTRL+F and then entering the word in the box that comes up.)

Thanks. That is not the passage but an interesting example of what Niz regarded as slow realization through meditation, on which he gives helpful advise. It seems clear therefore that he feels practise (slow), in this example meditation, can result in realization without despair being necessary. It is particularly interesting that when he is asked "What discovers?", his answer is "The mind". That has been my own feeling because it feels like the mind that conducts the search so it would not be surprising if it was mind that discovered the solution and presented that to the seeker in order for resonance and realization to occur. I am aware that realization by the mind is not regarded as valid by tradition and some Neo Advaita teachers such as Tony Parsons.

I have read the passage I am lookng for in my own copy which is lost but have not been able to find the passage since on line. Trying to find continues. Thank you for your reply.
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Old 17-07-2020, 01:50 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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You're welcome :)
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Old 17-07-2020, 06:30 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Does anyone know the passage in I AM ThAT, where a seeker states that he is in abject despair that progress will ever be made, and Niz tells him that he is in a most advantageo position to realize that he is already the Supreme? As though despair was a prequisite. Page number or maybe even post the passage here.

My copy has been lost.


A friend has found the passage which indeed describes the fast realization (Trust) mentioned by Niz:-

"Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru to Guru in search of release. My mind is sick, burning with desire, frozen with fear. My days flit by, red with pain, grey with boredom. My age is advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and frightening. At this rate I shall live in sorrow and die in despair. Is there any hope for me? Or have I come too late?

Niz: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built on the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. You are not that person. This must be clearly established in your mind and never lost sight of. Normally, it needs a prolonged sadhana, years of austerities and meditation.

Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither the strength nor the tenacity for sadhana. My case, is hopeless.

Niz: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is an alternative to sadhana, which is trust. If you cannot have the conviction born from fruitful search, then take advantage of my discovery, which I am so eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost clarity that you have never been, nor are, nor will be estranged from realty, that you are the fullness of perfection here and now and that nothing can deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You are in no way different from me, only you do not know it. You do not know what you are and therefore you imagine your self to be what you are not. Hence desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And meaningless activity in order to escape".

This is the basis of most Neo Advaita, sometimes referred to as the Direct approach. It was always known by some but was not widely mentioned because it was felt that the time was not right. When it was more widely spread, it was largely invalidated by tradition and remains untrusted, so perhaps it was not the right time for it to be spread more widely.

Last edited by Iamit : 17-07-2020 at 07:27 PM.
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  #10  
Old 17-07-2020, 11:20 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Oh . . . I just love this. Always with you mental intellectuals . . . it’s never anything requiring personal responsibility. It’s as simple as passing the buck to some phantom aspect of Self built on “the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. You are not that person” or some similar twisted definition.

Heck yeah. Let’s blame it on ego or duality / non-duality or . . . the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. It cannot be ME. Nuh uh. It’s some other aspect I can blame . . . but it’s not ME.

Welcome to the modern dancing craze.

Don’t ask yourself . . . what aspects of my state of consciousness do I find detrimental and would like to more deeply understand and find ways to address them and lay them to rest. Instead . . . blame it on the current phantom and then wait it out of the “time isn’t right.”

That ought to add a couple of hundred lifetimes to the ongoing string.

And I can always hold onto . . . “Niz says . . . .”

Enjoy.
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