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Old 09-05-2017, 06:16 PM
FellowTraveler FellowTraveler is offline
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Post Robert Monroe's deterministic universe, determinism. No free will?

I'm hoping there are some people, on this forum, who've read Robert Monroe's books. In his third book, Ultimate journey, he describes some encounters that make it all seem that our universe is deterministic and whatever you do, think or feel, nothing will change the course of events that are already laid down for you from the beginning. For all of us for that matter. Here are some key excerpts:
  • Chapter 9. The Hard Way. "... I felt a signal vibrating within me. I followed it and came upon a scene I remembered well. There was someone beside me—it felt like a brother. He seemed nervous. I was pointing at the figure of a man lying face down in the middle of a dusty road. He was a youngster, no more than eighteen. A battle was going on all around him. ... The eighteen-year-old, who wore a wide belt, was struggling to pull himself up. The problem was the spear which was holding him down. The spear had penetrated his back, gone all the way through his body and deep into the dirt of the road. ... I turned to the man beside me. He was in obvious pain. I asked him if he understood. He nodded, then turned and moved away, and disappeared. ..."
And another from the same 9th chapter:
  • "... Below me appeared a small building, with a hole in the side of it and wide steps leading down inside. I walked carefully down the steps because the signal was coming from inside. There lying on a cot was a man thrashing around wildly. Hanging on to his back were two children, about four or five years old, riding out the bucking and pitching. The man was sobbing in fear and desperately trying to pull the two little ones off his shoulders. I reached over and gently pulled the children away from him. He lay back in the cot whimpering in relief. I looked down at the children lying quietly, one cradled in each of my arms. They were not children but cats, pets I remembered well. Cats in an OB state! ..."
After those events, Monroe concludes (in the same 9th chapter):
  • "... So I was the one who was helping me. Also I was the young warrior dying in the dust—that was the only way it made sense. That meant, therefore, there were three versions of me at the same place at the same time! In the second event from years back, I had been the one screaming for help, trying to dislodge the little demons who wanted to ride me like a horse, who seemed to own me. And then a serious-looking man came down the steps and took them off me, held them in his arms, and suddenly disappeared. ... I had come to help when I screamed for it! This, I thought, was a little less complicated—there were only two of me present!"
Here's the cherry on the cake.
  • Chapter 14. The Sum and the Parts. "...
    (Monroe) Tell me, who was it that I talked with, who was so patient with me and knew the answers? Why are you laughing!
    (His I-There) Who knows you best of all?
    (Monroe) I . . . me? I was talking with myself? But what about the time factor?
    (His I-There) You were talking with yourself—who else knew you better?
    (Monroe) So that's why the meetings ended! I ran out of information. And as the INSPEC I knew better!
    (His I-There) That was so. The process served a valuable and necessary function at that stage in your growth.
    (Monroe) It did indeed. But I don't remember playing the INSPEC role.
    (His I-There) No. You have not done it yet.
    ...
    (Monroe) So I do complete my present life?
    (His I-There) Of course. Remember, when you return you will have to take on all those INSPEC meetings with yourself. Now, do you need anything else? ..."
By "yourself" doesn't mean one of his personalities but Monroe's personality itself, what he called I-Here.

All that tells us, or Monroe tells us, that everything is already predetermined, no free will. I'm not gonna delve into time-travel paradoxes here for the sake of brevity... maybe later in posts. Let's say Monroe decided not to answer those calls, ignore them and continue exploring at his own agency or maybe returning to his physical body. But that can't happen since in order for him to be where/when he is, he has to help himself, otherwise he can't exist in that particular scenario 'cause not helping himself would have realized a different timeline with different circumstances and different Robert Monroe. He's also destined to play the role of INSPEC, to help the past himself, exactly how it was played out before for him. And where is that Monroe in the past? Is it a different entity? etc... Well, I promised not to delve into the paradoxes... yet.
So what should we think about Monroe's experiences; should we take them or leave them? Thoughts, comments, suggestions.
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