Did Jesus Have a Soul

[Nowayout]

Perhaps spirit is Divine consciousness, our Soul self-consciousness, and the body world consciousness.

They are a trinity if you look at it this way.

I don't think Christians, for the most part, see God as male or female. Nor as an old man in the sky.

The Godhead is a mystery, even Jesus mentions he does not know the ultimate mind of God, but is aware of Gods will.

And yet Jesus is God incarnate from a Christian perspective, it's a huge mystery all that.

[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

This is an interesting thread - a rather unique question I have never seen asked before..

Nowayout;

Jesus came into the world and incarnated the flesh. The son of God! The Holy Spirit came with Him! Did Jesus have a soul?

Hmm - Christ is ALWAYS speaking about spirit, our Soul how to access it directly - to Him, this mortal physical part is simply not important, but the indwelling spirit, is crucial to know and understand He said...This from Thomas, answers the question directly a:

"I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty.

But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways." "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.

Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."

Well, we see directly HE claims to have a Soul for Himself - but He doesn't actually explain precisely what it is yet.. And we can see also see, this Soul is NOT EXACTLY the same as "spirit" - EVERYTHING has a spirit He says - but NOT everything has a Soul - the crucial element seems to be where He says - THEY ARE BLIND IN TEHIR HEARTS - they have a spirit inside, but are blind to it - when they change their ways, they will realise their own truth, they will MEET THEIR SOUL - they will be BORN AGAIN as He will say elsewhere, in new spirit and new Mind..

He says if the body exists BECAUSE of the spirit (it does), then that is a marvel - but, if it were the other way around, and the spirit arose FROM the body process, then that would be IMPOSSUBLE, marvel of all marvels... He is telling them that they ARE IMMORTAL - have this eternal SPIRIT within them - when they realise this, they will BECOME A SOUL, in a true sense, as I will further explain.. See He says - He marvels how HIS GREAT WEALTH came to dwell in this mortal poverty....He is CHRIST, His "great wealth" is the Divine Mind - the full SELF AWARENESS of precisely Who and What he ACTUALLY IS.. Thus far, He has said that HE has a Soul - the rest only have "spirit" and potential when and if we "change our ways" shake off that "old wine" and decide to change - and He has spoken of becoming more Self aware to unlock this potential within each of us..

Hmm - seems then - SPIRIT and SOUL are not quite the same commodity after all... There is a crucial difference involving the matter of SELF AWARENESS and the new perspective of Self that His truth brings.. Now, I will claim to have His insight here, so I will state that there are certain things we must understand to be able to appreciate this difference....MIND creates all existence Folks - you ARE that which you BELIEVE your Self to Be...You CREATE that which you hold as your foundational truth ALWAYS....This Self creation is KARMA - and look Folks - if you want a bona fide and eternal Soul that CONTINUES ot exist as ONE SINGULAR AWARENESS OF SELF - well first then you will have to CREATE that OF your Self

Mind Creates EVERYTHING - Our Father stepped forth from VOID and empty SILENCE - a state of "none existence" first, with just a fully abstract "Self aware entity" - a MIND - no other word fits better - Our Father is a MIND and it is literally "imagining" all that which it will be... It does this by creating symbolic representations of its own Self awareness - it all starts with a huge Primal force of energy that is first realised as LIGHT - and this Light that is the stuff we call "energy" will then be shaped and moulded to form "objects" the stuff we take to be solid, material worlds - even us and the life force that powers this body - the entire MULTIVERSE and the countless kazillion of individual lifeforms and their Souls - its ALL this SAME primal energy, my Fathers MIND...

And look Folks - THS IS SPIRIT - that Primal first Self realisation and first Self representation as light - this light IS THE HOLY SPIRIT - SHE is called "female" - a WOMB - because from Her source of energy, ALL things will then become formed - its ALL THE SAME ENERGY - one SPIRIT - ONE MIND..

This Mind - Our Father - has realised its own nature - just as OUR MIND operates - it has realised PERSONALITY within its own Nature in rder to make sense of and comprehend its own existence...These 2personalities2 are what we tend to think of when we think of "gods".... CHRIST is one such obvious personality - an attribute of, and mode of operation , within the Divine Mind... The ENERGY itself, likewise has a personality - SHE is named SOPHIA, and actually as we see, SHE proceeds even the Christ - though in truth, they emerge SIMULATNEOUSLY like Yin and Yang the One needs the Other to compliment and fullfill its function... TOGETHER Always, this Holy Matrimony - Sophia and Christ, call forth ad directly cause that Primal energetic Light to take on form, structure definition and function - thus the Creation unfolds, for those with ears to hear.. its ALL ONE MIND Self reflecting, Self observing, uncovering the understanding of its on Nature - Gnosis..

Everything IS Mind and eveythnig IS SPIRIT - even the inanimate world of mud and stone IS made of spirit - even things such as sunlight and wind ARE SPIRIT, are the SAME primal energy made to take a specific form and function !! Same for ALL lifeFORCE - same FORCE that is spirit same enegy as all else, now made to conform to specific pattern, form function that we look at and call LIFE.. its ALL ENERGY - its all SPIRIT - its ALL MY FATHERS MIND...but NO - not all of it has a SOUL !!

The crucial difference is when that life force, individual spirit within a body form - IF it becomes SELF AWARE - to a very good degree - enlightened as we would term it - then and ONLY THEN - can it possibly ever become an ETERNAL ENTITY - a TRUE SOUL that will NEVER perish but will remain now as it is, and can only grow and mature now but can never FORGET it Self as it KNOWS ITS NATURE as an ETERNAL Spirit.. MIND creates EVERYTHING...

As opposed toa MORTAL MAN - that has this spirit within - but does not KNOW it enough to understand it...Its all about KARMA Folks - MIND CREATES EVERYTHING - if you are self ignorant, believe you are a physical body and are unawre or in denial of anything spiritual (most are) then upon death ALL your mind can create is ANOTHER mortal life as that is all you ALLOW your Self to BE....

But look - if in that life we uncover this spirit within, that we ARE and have ALWAYS been but just dont realise here in life - IF we manage to bring that Self realisation out then the journey and the TRANSFORMATION may now begin in earnest - again KARMA - MIND CREATES EVERYTHING - now though, we KNOW we are an eternal spirit, thus we can start o turn our Karmik talent toward CREATING that truth for our Self.. When and if your spirit here and now powering this body, when it realises right down as a foundational core truth of its existence that it is MORE than a "physical body", then and only then can the Soul begin to be created....That individual will die - we all do - and that individual will realise it IS eternal just as it had come to believe in life - and so, it will hold it Self complete, intact, will not "forget" its nature - and thus now it has lifted it Self ABOVE its KARMA - it has taken control of it by KNOWING who and what it ACTUALLY IS - thus as He taught, KNOW THY SELF and all mystery will be revealed....

If we don't come to this inner truth NOW in life, BEFORE we die - then in that instant, we will be literally dazed and confused - we will be panicking blindly as THIS life ends and we find our Self in a total new bewildering environment - and yet we will still and always have this KARMA this talent to Self create - and so our MIND WILL CREATE for Karma is truly unstoppable, just takes the merest Conscious impulse to start the process off - it will take that energy arouind, force it to assume whatever form and function you BELIEVE you should have - whatever you BELIEVE your Self to BE, will indeed BE RE CREATED - die in Self ignorance - die believing the Self to be Mortal and you will TRAP your Self here again in ignorance, AS A MORTAL - NO ETERNAL SOUL as your nature is not understood, and so each successive life - or rather, each successive death I should say - you will LOSE your Self again in forgetful confusion - be reborn - try AGAIN to uncover this ETERNAL truth that you are - and if you fail then yet again, more reincarnation - until finally the SPIRIT within, reaches a level of SELF AWARENESS and understands it IS ETERNAL - and thus at THAT moment the "spirit" is TRULY reborn as that eternal Self aware SOUL..

Before that Self aware state dawns within the Mind trapped within the body, the spirit is destined to simply repeat and forget, repeat and forget on and on in endless reincarnation death birth death cycle - this is why He told us above all things first KNOW THY SELF - become FULLY known and all the outer mystery will be revealed, for those with ears to hear.. ALL life forms - all Creatures - are SPIRIT - but not all Creatures have an eternal Soul - Self understanding is always the the crucial Key....

[Nowayout]

Hi Ab Origine.

That is a lot to digest. I can understand that the Godhead might just be all mind and that we also are mind, with the indwelling spirit.

Your Biblical quote, what is the source of that?

I don't know much about Sophia, will need to look into it.

Karma is interesting, perhaps we are energy that is awakening in spirit.

[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

Yes - this is an interesting thread

NoWayOut;

Non-duality, say, gives us the same footing as Gods? Ok.. However, I can make nothing new in creation.

Hmm - what if I told you that Christ said Our Father exists ALWAYS as a TRINITY ..??...not a single entity - not even a dual entity mother /father - but a triune entity - each aspect integral vital and necessary, fully complimentary - three distinct Primal, and therefore Divine "personalities" this Mind first realises within its Self, its Nature, and that operate in unison to cause all the rest of Creation to flow forth FROM that first Self aware state - each Sentient Mind has this same foundational arrangement, Self created personality, investigates its own existance - made in THAT image Folks...

What if I also told you that Christ said this one was ASSUME to be "god" - the bible god as we now have it - is not ATUALLY a bona fide god at all - it is itself merely a creature He said - an Angel - NOT the SOURCE of this creation at all - not the SOURCE OF KARMA that IS the creation process as described - this Angel DID create mankind directly HE said - but just as you notice above - this Angel is NOT creating anything NEW or unique - ALL it is actually doing, is manipulating and forming this energy, that is ALREADY HERE when this so called "god" first comes forth..

God creates, that is simple in my minds view.........................Ponder on that and then look at the stars at night, science is seeing that there are just as many universes as there are galaxies, as there are planets in the sky. It's endless.....

And that's just the visible creation, then there are the spiritual dimensions, places human eyes have not seen, Jesus tells us.

YES, EXACTLY !!! He actually said that such spiritual realms exist that are not even accessable at all, YET, for a mortal spirit - first they must be completely freed - not just in mortal death - but must come to that crucial Self awareness AS an eternal Soul and realise that potential, in order to break that reincarnation cycle and entirely leave this low mortal realm, and start the return to that Source of All, Our Father..

He DID ACTUALY SAY that the Jewish god we call Yhvh - the bible god the western world knows as THE god - is not the supreme legitimate Divine spirit - He said that spirit, Our Father, exists in a state, or realm of Being, that is totally beyond the mortal ability to attain...We are ENERGY - made LITERALLY from that primal light that forms ALL CREATION... We know from the world around and our science that investigates that world, that this energy comes now in many many forms - broadly speaking it holds to three main states - solid liquid or gas.. we know for example that ice can BECOME water and then BECOME steam - and all it takes is a little manipulation of the ENERGY that forms the water/ice steam... The steam SEEMS to disappear and cease to exist HERE inteis realm - we cant detect it with ou limited senses tune specifically to this state of existence - BUT - the energy itself has not disappeared - its just CHANGED FORM - sateam became fully etheric and evaportated - exists nw ina muc subtler form that we no longer detect - its STILL THERE of course, the energy pattern is different that is all...

Same for spiritual reality - it ALWAYS surrounds us - but is NOT ACCESSABLE until we alter our own INTERLA state of energy - and remember, this energy that we are is also the MIND that we are - hence the MIND creates everything FROM the energy - thus - KNOW THY SELF is the first advise - come to know that YOU do this creation of the Self BY the Self, always... THROUGH the Mind and Self awareness, we must identify that inner primal energy - cultivate it - purify it very similar to ice raises its energy to become water and again to become steam - so too the Human spirit must be raised in its energetic quality - purified if you prefer - we too must take that energy and make it pass out of this realm to assimilate and become one with the greater reality that has always surrounded us, as far as we may YET attain....

Tethered to a mortal and physical form like this, there is only so far we can ascend at present - Buddha for example, took His Soul as far as a mortal bound Soul MAY attain - upon death, Buddha would have become Immortal beyond any doubt - Christ teaching is primarily to prepare our Self HERE in life by directly uncovering and giving "birth" to that Soul - and preparing that Soul then to be vigilant at the point of mortal death, ready to take control of its Karma at that instant - forgive the Self its former ignorance - and begin to Create the Self anew with proper Self understanding.. The only crucial difference is that Christ came DIRECTLY FROM the Source with full Self understanding and thus had foreknowledge of spiritual truths that no mortal man had ever known before, not even "god and angels above" He said know HIS truth or have ever encountered Our Father or that Primal state, realm of existence.. The rest of us, like Buddha did, must uncover it slowly step by step by deep inner Self observation..

(Indeed - that Primal realm - first ream where the Trinity dwell in formless abstract Silence - Barbello He calls that realm - and said that before He came among us it was entirely unknown, energetically separate, isolated on purpose so that the Souls, Angels and their "god" here in this realm did not have any idea at all that a much greater power existed before them)..

Upon death - and in that state of Self aware mastery - the Soul is freed FULLY and may then transcend that enforced reincarnation cycle if it so pleases - or it may CHOOSE to come back here again to enlighten those poor Souls still trapped in this prison, struggling against their imposed mortal bondage..

I say it that way with intent and purpose Folks - enforced, prison, trapped - because according to Christ, as I have said - this one yhvh is NOT the god supreme, but is only an Angel, a Creature like You and I are....It craves power and authority He said, and has literally kept us in total spiritual ignorance (until Christ came among us) to ensure that it remained dominant, it has forbidden spiritual truth to mankind, made it demonised, threatened all with eternal damnation and suffering if we disobey it - through this enforced ignorance and fear it holds the spirits here captive, unable to ascend past its lies, re creating the ignorance of this mortal world time after time as that is all they know - KARMA is unstoppable - you WILL create that whicjh you believe your Self to Be.. The one you think of as "god" has kept you (all) spiritually dominated through enforced ignorance and twisted truth - it even physically alterered the form to stop the spiritual energy from being used properly - and so you never realise your eternal nature, never free the Soul from this mortal prison that is forced upon it and must endure life after life now, in bondage to that Angel Yhvh who forces you to bow down and worship and has ensured that at present, without Christ, you will never escape its nefarious influence...

[Nowayout]

Thank you Ab Origine.

I like a lot of what you present.

For a time I studied Buddism, and I love it's wisdom but could never quite figure how it would mesh with my faith in Christ.

I always figured that God was very high grounds indeed, and the spiritual planes unseen.

Karma and our awakening to spiritual truths, I get that, in some ways I always had it, since I was a child.

As we grow older we get more complicated, looking for answers when like you say it's all around us, we just need to tune in.

[Ariaecheflame]

I'm more of a feelings kind of person and have no definitive answers to anything but imagine that everything including the nature of our souls is all energy which originates from the same source... so I do not see why Jesus would be any exception and would say that yes - he bad a soul expression as a spark from that source. I think he would have had a soul, a personality and an energetic system which was a clear vessel for spirit... all aspects which would have been intergrated and in balance as a living example for how we can all be.

Peace to you, friends.

[Nowayout]

Hey Emeraldheart,

No definitive answers to anything, but some clues?

I have a few, what a life it's been up to now. Unfortunately, I can't remember any past lives, I have had revelations from the Holy Spirit, grace..., deep interior stirrings, and it is not unlike what Ab Origine is pointing towards.

The thing is, I believe in the spiritual world and God, although a huge mystery to me as most of us.

The spirit, the soul, the heart!

Love... compassion, and goodwill. Jesus was all this and more, did he have a soul, does it matter, perhaps I figure now.. lol.

And I don't buy into the eternal damnation thing at all, it's just not the way I see it.

Another reason why Ab O jives with me.

The gospels of Thomas, that's the gnostic bible, and you know, I like it.

Cheers.

[Ariaecheflame]

I have leant into the Gnostics little myself... it was speaking to me on a level which nothing else really was.

In saying that though I do often think that none of it really matters beyound loving and compassionate kindness- from the heart... for a while anyway

[Nowayout]

I would like to learn more about my spirit, I would like to know where the road leads but I don't need a lecture, however, you know what I mean.

I just re-did the brakes on my jeep, with the help of youtube. It was not as easy as they made it look, we have more rust here..Lol.

And I figure all my existential longings will eventually be understood. With some help..

It begins with the understanding that somethings not quite right. Whats that grinding noise coming from my wheels?

My motto in life simply is, be kind, help others when you can, and the rest will work out.

Self-inquiry goes a long way too... and I love Jesus, something about that man.

Life is large..

[Ariaecheflame]

LOL... I fixed my mind - and the lawn mower with the help of youtube