Nonduality and "The Guru".

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

on thinking yourself 'all that' and on being 'insecure': yeah that is one of the things we have to work through, not thinking ourselves all that special for whatever comes up. Gurus have to do that too and it takes them every bit as much effort. But they aren't in an environment where people heckle them as part of the process, so, we are learning something they aren't. As an example of one of many things that are apparently outside of your understanding?

But on your favorite topic of following gurus, there are a lot of limitations if you are a guru. And then after you devote your life to the practices you find you have put yourself in a box. Same as everyone else your life practices have put you in a box. It is just that with your status of 'guru' your box looks different than the 'normal' boxes that the majority of people have.

Maybe in some ways it is more spacious and comfortable. But it is a box nonetheless. And because of it, you'll go on to die just like the rest of us.

What is the point?

Personally that path isn't for me even if everyone is going to sit here and deride me for not playing follow the leader the way everyone tells me is best.

Ok so I'm wasting my life away because I've been kicked in the shins so many times I couldn't play by stupid meaningless rules that only lead to ruin even though I WANT to, and everyone knows you just cannot live like that. Everyone knows that you CANNOT deny the status quo at any price and I'm a fool for not just being able to just buy into it sight unseen the way everyone else seems to. Ok so I'm a fool and I'm willful and I'm just plain wasting my life away. Your point is?????

Which path are you referring to when you say

"Personally that path isn't for me even if everyone is going to sit here and deride me for not playing follow the leader the way everyone tells me is best"

?

[sentient]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Here is a link to a masterpiece called the Triadic Heart of Siva.

http://www.laurelhovde.com/Design/Th...rt-of-Siva.pdf

Also, here are many links about ks here.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=117448

Hope these links help.

Thank you for all the links, I will look into it a bit more.

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

Hi Jonesboy, I think sky is probably quite correct about this technique being part of qigong, for instance see under the sub heading Bringing in Heaven and Earth Energy halfway down the page in this Qi Gong link http://www.1paradigm.org/qigong.html

That's a very informative article django, I did point out this ' Wu Chi ' position and the importance of it to JB but there was no response

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Hi Jonesboy, I think sky is probably quite correct about this technique being part of qigong, for instance see under the sub heading Bringing in Heaven and Earth Energy halfway down the page in this Qi Gong link http://www.1paradigm.org/qigong.html

Is sky gazing Qi Qong because it mentions the sun?

The details of the technique are different.

Also you would never here us talking about earth energy and sun energy as being separate.

Internal Fire is similar to many techniques for sure. It is a basic technique.

Still very, very different than what you posted.

You do realize how silly it to assume it is Qi Qong first because of its name primordial and then as more proof because it mentions the sun and earth.

Really?

Look into the details of the movement of the energy.

The accusation was it was a ripoff, stolen, taken credit for by Jeff but something done for thousands of years.

I have seen things close but nothing showing this exact method.

Until someone can show me this exact technique step by step... well good luck with that.

I am sure that won’t stop some people from making stuff up anyways.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Is sky gazing Qi Qong because it mentions the sun?

The details of the technique are different.

Also you would never here us talking about earth energy and sun energy as being separate.

Internal Fire is similar to many techniques for sure. It is a basic technique.

Still very, very different than what you posted.

You do realize how silly it to assume it is Qi Qong first because of its name primordial and then as more proof because it mentions the sun and earth.

Really?

Look into the details of the movement of the energy.

The accusation was it was a ripoff, stolen, taken credit for by Jeff but something done for thousands of years.

I have seen things close but nothing showing this exact method.

Until someone can show me this exact technique step by step... well good luck with that.

I am sure that won’t stop some people from making stuff up anyways.

No it doesn't stop people from making things up as some do

Earth energy and Sun are exactly the same, if you understood Qigong you would be able to see why it seems to read as being separate, yin/yang will explain it for you if you are interested in learning....

As for star gazing... yes it is used in some forms of Qigong, you visualize the energy from the stars as Jeff does with the sun and the earth.
Hope this helps.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

No it doesn't stop people from making things up as some do

Earth energy and Sun are exactly the same, if you understood Qigong you would be able to see why it seems to read as being separate, yin/yang will explain it for you if you are interested in learning....

As for star gazing... yes it is used in some forms of Qigong, you visualize the energy from the stars as Jeff does with the sun and the earth.
Hope this helps.

Making stuff up like it is an old method and yet not showing that it is? Just putting things down again with broad statements?

Making up stuff like that?

Please feel free to share about energy and how it is experienced.

You have argued with me so often about energy it would be nice to actually hear you talk about it instead of just disparaging what others have to say.

Any bets on what she will do anyone? :)

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Is sky gazing Qi Qong because it mentions the sun?

The details of the technique are different.

Also you would never here us talking about earth energy and sun energy as being separate.

Internal Fire is similar to many techniques for sure. It is a basic technique.

Still very, very different than what you posted.

You do realize how silly it to assume it is Qi Qong first because of its name primordial and then as more proof because it mentions the sun and earth.

Really?

Look into the details of the movement of the energy.

The accusation was it was a ripoff, stolen, taken credit for by Jeff but something done for thousands of years.

I have seen things close but nothing showing this exact method.

Until someone can show me this exact technique step by step... well good luck with that.

I am sure that won’t stop some people from making stuff up anyways.

It seems to me that Jeff's technique is his version of a basic technique, so his exact version may be unique, but it can still be based on ideas that are much older. I don't honestly see why this is a problem?

[sentient]

I came to this forum to bring my attention to remembering: “What the heck happened back then, at the time of the awakening?”.

I feel like I am a jigsaw-puzzle looking for the missing pieces of that puzzle picture to sticky-tape myself back together again.
So I guess, I am just mainly talking to myself here, following my own thread of inquiry and creating sketches of my mental aberrations, thus making myself rather vulnerable here.

Now I am stuck on the ascending vs. descending energy question, because all I experienced then was the descending, engulfing Force-field.
The feeling of Grace and Joy only descended after I had settled down from a state of panic (of my “death”)

A sketch from previous post, with additions:

[Or one could talk about it in terms of (a felt sense) thundercloud hovering about (invitation/calling).
When thunder (other-dimensional sound) is heard it shifts one to awakening.
Then when the thundercloud comes right above you and engulfs you - the lightning strikes (merge/initiation, which is like a blackout or “death”)].

When you are back in the body, for me it was first panic (like I mentioned), then the feeling of Grace and Joy and a sense of having been re-arranged and reborn, but now without gender.
(Well, there is more to it to add to the “list”).

So perhaps in a Shamanic/Christian integrated awakening (because both elements were there, though I didn’t follow any tradition), the ascending energy and the descending energy just met and merged simultaneously, because even though the Oneness was realized, it was realized in a very personal, individualistically intimate way according to one’s own “soul’s patterning” maybe one could say.
But I didn’t even know about Shamanic-soul-patterning then, because that tradition had been broken down, only now I know that it perhaps is the “past lives soul patterning” as well, a heritage which is like cellular memory, ready to be triggered awake (into further remembering) by circumstances.

So this ascending and descending Energy situation really seems to wake up your own soul’s energetic connection to Oneness, it is not a soul implant from another culture (or soul patterns bought from the supermarket).

Now I am also stuck on what this guy Igor has to say, because in the points that I do relate to what he is saying, I agree with him.

Found another video by him on the subject, which I listened to last night, and I think he does make some important points to consider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVD9ywXhxQQ

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Making stuff up like it is an old method and yet not showing that it is? Just putting things down again with broad statements?

Making up stuff like that?

Please feel free to share about energy and how it is experienced.

You have argued with me so often about energy it would be nice to actually hear you talk about it instead of just disparaging what others have to say.

Any bets on what she will do anyone? :)

I understand you are 'Star struck' or mybe Jeff stuck and you cannot see that his visualisations are based on methods used thousands of years ago, of course they are worded differently because visualisation is unique to each person. Nobodys has dispareged the practise but they are not Jeff's invention neither do they need someone from ' lineage ' (which I presume means Jeffs entourage) to perform.

'This page has been charged with light/energy transmission to give such support ' now this statement from Jeff is very silly and sounds slightly cult like.....

Energy..... can be felt in many ways JB as you should know from Jeffs teachings.
Vibration, heat, magnetic repulsion, tingling, movement in the meridians, etc: it depends.
If you would like help with understanding Qigong then you can start another thread as we seem to be taking over this one so that's enough from me....

[sentient]

Originally Posted by sky123

visualisations are based on methods used thousands of years ago, of course they are worded differently because visualisation is unique to each person.

Yes, sort of – exactly.

If I was to make that visualization my own:

Picture the sun high above your head. Feel the radiant warmth of the sun for a few moments. Then feel a powerful sunbeam coming straight down from the sun and hitting directly on the top of your head.

Off the top of my head (pardon the pun), I wouldn’t visualise it as the Sun. Though the (central) Sun is a brilliant symbol (again pardon the pun). The Pole Star is also excellent.
I wouldn’t visualise it as Vajrasattva on a moon disc either.
Instead I would visualise it as the Full Moon shining (from the Causal plane (?)), where within that indigo blue sky it shines the purest and the most beautiful blissful light.
Feeling its cooling rays, well, it is a state mimicking Grace already, something that evokes devotion one can trust opening up to. Plus it already then stills the mind.

Full Moon, from where Vajrasattva nor an Archangel did appear as the “ferry-man”, but the Horse, when the time was ripe. But then again, being part “Mong” what else can one expect!?

Well that visualisation above isn’t “charged with light/energy transmission to give support”, but serves, I hope as an example of how to make visualisations your own, to think, what is most true and deeply meaningful and trustworthy to “you” as an individual.