Do I have to like people?

[dream jo]

it gets me mad wen a perssnn trys 2 forses u 2 luv thm lk
a man meet a womenn he trys 2 foress her luv it will problyy tru turnn2 hateee lk visee verssa
its lk kids u cnt foresse thm 2 be frinedd on pepepl thy dnt get on

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I relate to the notion of 'sports' being a kind of (Western) 'yoga'. You can have a desired 'goal' (preference, whatever) and keep on playing/going for it without being 'upset' if and when the flow isn't or doesn't 'go' as one wishes to.

Agreed. I sometimes relate to sports or a game - like monopoly, life, etc.

You can play sincerely (trying to win) without taking it seriously (need to win).

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

You can play sincerely (trying to win) without taking it seriously (need to win).

eputkonen!

U2 Moondance and U3 dream jo!!

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

Yes, but there is no attachment to the preference...it doesn't NEED to go your way (so to speak).

I can prefer the heat rather than the cold...but I do not insist that I am never cold. I still live in Minnesota - where the winters are very cold...it is not resisted or denied when it is cold out. There is no suffering in being cold.

Right. So it’s not so much about dropping liking and not liking - these are natural functionings of the body-mind-personality. It’s about a modification of the relationship to these natural occurrences in the light of realisation.

As I get older I don’t think I'd be able to take those Minnesota winters - I’d probably be thinking about moving by now. Practical solutions are my first stop for practical challenges. Which reminds me of a story (I'm paraphrasing) about a woman who went to see Poonjaji (or it might have been Nisargadatta) bemoaning the fact that she lived above a garage workshop and was subject to noise from machinery and power tools all day long. She explained that she had tried to meditate through it, questioned ‘who is it that is so distressed’ and earnestly tried to accept the situation. She begged Poonjaji, ‘please give me some spiritual advice - what should I do’. Without hesitation, he told her that she should move.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Without hesitation, he told her that she should move.

Yah, sometimes intellectualizations can be worshiped like 'golden calf' idols!

Reminds me about the joke attributed to Mohammad, It is told that he said: "Have faith in God, but tie your camel."

LOL

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Right. So it’s not so much about dropping liking and not liking - these are natural functionings of the body-mind-personality. It’s about a modification of the relationship to these natural occurrences in the light of realisation.

That opens the door (so to speak) too widely. After awakening/enlightenment, many preferences (likes and dislikes) fall away. For example, disliking the here and now...or disliking something in the past. Disliking in general has mostly fallen away. When I have a preferences, often it is a preference between something liked and something else liked a little more...but either is acceptable and would be enjoyed. The preference doesn't really matter.

If there is no separation...no other...what is really going on when something is disliked? It is a dislike for oneSelf...as there is only the Self.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

That opens the door (so to speak) too widely. After awakening/enlightenment, many preferences (likes and dislikes) fall away. For example, disliking the here and now...or disliking something in the past. Disliking in general has mostly fallen away. When I have a preferences, often it is a preference between something liked and something else liked a little more...but either is acceptable and would be enjoyed. The preference doesn't really matter.

If there is no separation...no other...what is really going on when something is disliked? It is a dislike for oneSelf...as there is only the Self.

Yah, deep philosophy (as in deep ecology) here. Focus on preference (both as a concept and as an experience) gets rid of the 'dis' (disrespect) and 'non' (non-acceptance) and 'lack' (lack of 'appreciation' of the presence of possibilities) implicit in e-motion-ally dis'like'ing something or some condition.

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

That opens the door (so to speak) too widely. After awakening/enlightenment, many preferences (likes and dislikes) fall away. For example, disliking the here and now...or disliking something in the past. Disliking in general has mostly fallen away. When I have a preferences, often it is a preference between something liked and something else liked a little more...but either is acceptable and would be enjoyed. The preference doesn't really matter.

For the purposes of this particular discussion I think that the distinction between liking something and liking something not so much broadly fits in with how the words ‘like’ and ‘dislike’ were practically intended (see Bhavani’s original post.) The point remains that a spectrum of preference persists in biological and psychologically conditioned body-mind-personalities. Realisation doesn’t completely extinguish this but will affect (modify) the intensity and duration of certain types of aversion.

Originally Posted by eputkonen

If there is no separation...no other...what is really going on when something is disliked? It is a dislike for oneSelf...as there is only the Self.

This is a common form of faulty reasoning due to the mixing of the relative and absolute. You may as well admonish the footballer for kicking Self, or the chef for chopping up Self, or indeed, all of us for flushing Self down the loo.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Moondance

This is a common form of faulty reasoning due to the mixing of the relative and absolute. You may as well admonish the footballer for kicking Self, or the chef for chopping up Self, or indeed, all of us for flushing Self down the loo.

XOXOXOXOXOXO (added to make the post long enough for the board to accept it)

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by Moondance

For the purposes of this particular discussion I think that the distinction between liking something and liking something not so much broadly fits in with how the words ‘like’ and ‘dislike’ were practically intended (see Bhavani’s original post.) The point remains that a spectrum of preference persists in biological and psychologically conditioned body-mind-personalities. Realisation doesn’t completely extinguish this but will affect (modify) the intensity and duration of certain types of aversion.

This is a common form of faulty reasoning due to the mixing of the relative and absolute. You may as well admonish the footballer for kicking Self, or the chef for chopping up Self, or indeed, all of us for flushing Self down the loo.

Aversion is a reaction from illusions of the mind.
With the occurrence of enlightenment, aversion vanishes.

The faulty reasoning is yours, because ceasing to be averse because of the deep understanding that there is only the Self...is not the same as kicking a football, chopping an onion, or flushing poop. Sure, it is all the Self...but no judgment is made about the football, onion, or poop...there was not aversion to them.