The most distructive word

Originally Posted by hybrid

well for me that is the history of the concept of sin.

when men decided to live in community and entered into his mind that the common good of the community is paramount for survival and expressed this idea as equality for all, sin became a reality.

if there are 5 cookies and 5 members of the family, and one of them ate two cookies, that guy sins.... it is as simple as that

Well I guess it comes down to what word you choose to use to describe bad behavior...but with the cookie analogy I would use the word selfish...

nightowl

Originally Posted by not human

The word itself fills the requirement of our dual way of thinking. The concept behind the word can trap people into trying to modify their behaviour to become pure or not sin.
I have given up trying to figure destructive or creative because in all cases both roads lead to the same place ultimatly. Sure you can get trapped in be a sinner for a few years maybe your experience calls for that.

That's interesting. And how do you find your way out of the trap? Just "realize" that you're not a sinner? A few years? There's many people who commit their lives to crime, or are not repentant. But I understand where you're coming from, and isn't that what we are striving for, to change our behavior and do or not do the things that we should or shouldn't?

[hybrid]

nightowl,
selfish - yes, that is the origin of evil in this world.

according to the bible, sin entered the world because men ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. first thing they noticed after eating was that they were naked.

this speaks of a time when primitive men became SELF-aware. imo

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by not human

The word itself fills the requirement of our dual way of thinking. The concept behind the word can trap people into trying to modify their behaviour to become pure or not sin.
I have given up trying to figure destructive or creative because in all cases both roads lead to the same place ultimatly. Sure you can get trapped in thinking you are a sinner for a few years maybe your experience calls for that. Maybe this comment is a bit too open ended for the thread but it is just my point of reference at the moment. Thanks

i agree that the obsession to be pure perfect and holy can be a psychosis. guilt trip too.

Originally Posted by hybrid

i agree that the obsession to be pure perfect and holy can be a psychosis. guilt trip too.

Thanks for clarifying that post Hybrid.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Thanks for clarifying that post Hybrid.

welcome.
i also think this is the general complaint about the concept of sin, most harmful particularly in the catholic church is the doctrine of original sin. where members are raised all their lives to believe that they are sinners.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by hybrid

if sin is a tale why is there a need to forgive?
isn't it implied that it was the sinner that needs forgiving?

Yes, you are correct! And why?
Why is there a need to forgive - or is there a need!?

There are mistakes - a lover forgets your birthday - a lover or child (that which some relate as to who we are) goes into the cookie jar before dinner -
The lover or Creator or parent already knows we are imperfect stumbling around like a new born calf ---what is there to really forgive?

(Now, this shakes the bones of what we have been told Jesus said....)

When One is in the Realm of Being Love Itself...do you really think there is any need for any forgiveness?

Now, as imperfect people in our egos and lost to the Truth of Who we are - we get our "personal" feelings hurt and we feel the lesser/lower feelings of resentment, idignation, jealousy, anger and the like -so WE need to be more like the Creator/ Father --- in a place where we have clarity - never taking anything personally ----can you really hurt the feelings of a person that just won a $10 million lottery? No - they are just flying too high to be brought down by silliness.

That to me is a metaphor concerning God our Father.
When we are that high - we are not bothered by anything - we see clearly the person's issues that they are projecting onto us ---- forgive ?-
the thing is to be in the place where forgiveness doesn't even exist!

I know this is a new way for many to look at forgiveness --- but it took me years consciously dealing with the forgiveness of my father - to then be given deep insight into the nature of forgiveness. I don't expect anyone to just "get it".
It takes me a year to "get" what someone else understands sometimes!!!


You know, Psalm 139 effected me alot - understanding the depth and the breadth and the length and the height of the Love of God.

Miss Hepburn

I'm kind of in the same thought as human on this one.

To me its not in the word that is used, its the intent behind the word.

Its never made my skin crawl to be called a sinner. Infact I don't try to deny being one. However if its spat in anger I remove myself from that persons presence. Love if used in a sentance with the same intent behind it, would hurt just as much.

I know, I am outside the norm with this viewpoint. 'Shrug'

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes, you are correct! And why?
Why is there a need to forgive - or is there a need!?

There are mistakes - a lover forgets your birthday - a lover or child (that which some relate as to who we are) goes into the cookie jar before dinner -
The lover or Creator or parent already knows we are imperfect stumbling around like a new born calf ---what is there to really forgive?

(Now, this shakes the bones of what we have been told Jesus said....)

When One is in the Realm of Being Love Itself...do you really think there is any need for any forgiveness?

Now, as imperfect people in our egos and lost to the Truth of Who we are - we get our "personal" feelings hurt and we feel the lesser/lower feelings of resentment, idignation, jealousy, anger and the like -so WE need to be more like the Creator/ Father --- in a place where we have clarity - never taking anything personally ----can you really hurt the feelings of a person that just won a $10 million lottery? No - they are just flying too high to be brought down by silliness.

That to me is a metaphor concerning God our Father.
When we are that high - we are not bothered by anything - we see clearly the person's issues that they are projecting onto us ---- forgive ?-
the thing is to be in the place where forgiveness doesn't even exist!

I know this is a new way for many to look at forgiveness --- but it took me years consciously dealing with the forgiveness of my father - to then be given deep insight into the nature of forgiveness. I don't expect anyone to just "get it".
It takes me a year to "get" what someone else understands sometimes!!!


You know, Psalm 139 effected me alot - understanding the depth and the breadth and the length and the height of the Love of God.

Miss Hepburn

except that not all people don't make honest mistakes. some do it with malicious intent.

now, if you had somehow expunge the malicious intent in your heart for what ever process you have taken, you have effectively defeat sin.

but unless all the people becomes like you, we can't officially called sin is just a tale, can we?

I seem to be at some place where all words & cincepts are valid under the sun. Where I find it difficult to make the word sin any more significant than rhe word custard. Concepts as well I appear to be struggling with to hold one eg this is a good thing or a bad thing.etc. I have no idea whether my condition is stereo typical or not haha good or bad.
Sin implies purity of thought & action as its opposite state. On this basis it has to exist as a word & a concept to give birth to the opposite state.