Where there is a will there is a way! But what is "will" exactly?

[LadyVictoria]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Think on this. Are not ideas dependent on mind? That is if there are no minds there are no ideas? So existence of ideas is dependent on existence of mind, so ideas have no inherent existence. That is they are not just floating around all by themselves and independent of mind.

I've delved deeply into both topics, put in a lot of meditation and also played around with lucid dreaming. Speaking of lucid dreaming, imagine a similar experience during waking reality. Realizing there was another, more fundamental reality then the one you find yourself in.

Okay I agree ideas are dependent on mind or thoughts or thinking which is not the self in itself but rather something the self possesses. We may possess a car or a house and we also possess certain thoughts and ideas. However who is saying that there is "no mind"? If there is no mind then there is no ideas but self-evidently there are ideas and therefore there is a mind of some nature.

Again I have to question this term "no inherent existence" because just because the reality of things are dependent on the reality of other things how does that make them any more or less real? All that says to me is that some existence is dependent on the existence of other things. Okay. Agreed. Now what?

I'm a highly experienced lucid dreamer and again I have to stress that dreams are NOT "a fundamental reality [that exists apart from] the one you find yourself in." Your dream reality, independent of being experienced through lucidity or not, is just another aspect of you overall personal reality or life experience. The experience of the physical world, the imaginary world and the dream world are ALL aspects of ones personal reality. They are not separate of alternate realities but rather combined they make up the whole of ones life experience.

[LadyVictoria]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

What Neuroscience Says about Free Will

We're convinced that it exists, but new research suggests it might be nothing more than a trick the brain plays on itself

This particular study proves absolutely nothing beyond the predicting capabilities of the human brain which I'm already well versed in the neurological science of the anticipationary nature of the human brain. This is not new and neurologists have understood how the mind predicts and anticipates certain things within the scope of its understanding. This is how we read. With each word we see we are already predicting what the next word will be.

I wish it had more to do with concept of free will but I think the title of the article is just grasping at straws unfortunately and doesn't really help me with my essay or answer any of my questions. Also this light-up red circle experiment doesn't really tell us much in relation to human will-power. I enjoy reading articles like this because it represents how human beings can concoct silly theories with goofy experiments.

[LadyVictoria]

I want to say thank you to all who have responded to my inquiry.

JASG - I'll look into your playlists when I have a chance. Thank you.

Have a good evening everyone.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by LadyVictoria

I can accept this idea of a "balancing system" but again you need to define what you mean by "illusion". Is the individual's will power the same as the "Oneness's" will power?

Yes. From a nondual perspective it is Oneness that appears as the illusion of ourselves with will power. In the nondual story Oneness is the only reality.

Originally Posted by LadyVictoria

I'm a highly experienced lucid dreamer and again I have to stress that dreams are NOT "a fundamental reality [that exists apart from] the one you find yourself in." Your dream reality, independent of being experienced through lucidity or not, is just another aspect of you overall personal reality or life experience. The experience of the physical world, the imaginary world and the dream world are ALL aspects of ones personal reality. They are not separate of alternate realities but rather combined they make up the whole of ones life experience.

Cool! Now imagine if in waking reality and relating the experience to a lucid dream you attained a higher level of consciousness and realized you weren't your body or your mind. That your mind-body, other mind-bodies, animals, trees, mountains, lakes, everything were all contained within you and you were within all of them.

That it wasn't just something you thought might be but was something you knew was and without a shadow of doubt, just like when attaining lucidity in a dream you know there's your dream body and all other dream bodies and things in the dream but you are the dreamer lying in bed. That they are all within you. That it's all you.

To look into another's eyes and know, viscerally and palpably, that you are looking right back to the point of expecting a knowing wink. LOL!

Do you practice meditation? If so have you ever tried resting in awareness/choiceless awareness/do-nothing meditation? If not I highly recommend it if you're seeking the experience of non-dual awareness and beyond.


Escaping the Observer Trap: Free Yourself by Observing the Observer

https://deconstructingyourself.com/e...rver-trap.html


Nonduality and Mindfulness — Two Great Traditions that Go Great Together

https://deconstructingyourself.com/n...ndfulness.html


Do Nothing Meditation

https://deconstructingyourself.com/d...editation.html

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...
everything were all contained within you
and you were within all of them.
...

This is where I believe there is a misconception of how reality is.

A more accurate formulation is:

everything is part of your reality
and you are part of everything's reality

You (your subconscious) create your own reality, as everybody creates theirs. You are the only primary construction in your reality; everything else is a secondary construction in your reality. The same applies to everybody's reality. There are an infinite number of versions of you, not identical, but only one primary construction of you, which is in your reality.

Originally Posted by inavalan

This is where I believe there is a misconception of how reality is.

A more accurate formulation is:

everything is part of your reality
and you are part of everything's reality

You (your subconscious) create your own reality, as everybody creates theirs. You are the only primary construction in your reality; everything else is a secondary construction in your reality. The same applies to everybody's reality. There are an infinite number of versions of you, not identical, but only one primary construction of you, which is in your reality.

That's not the non-dual perspective. To be a part of implies more than one, as does an infinite number of versions of you.

Non-dualism is simple in concept - One without a second - however the brain has a terrible time trying to wrap itself around that and aside from the intellectual difficulty there's the surrendering of sovereignty that's not at all appealing to the small self.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

That's not the non-dual perspective. To be a part of implies more than one, as does an infinite number of versions of you.

Non-dualism is simple in concept - One without a second - however the brain has a terrible time trying to wrap itself around that and aside from the intellectual difficulty there's the surrendering of sovereignty that's not at all appealing to the small self.

Thanks, didn't intend to offend non-duality believers. Just stated how I see reality. (I noticed that it's okay to state, even on thematic forums, alternate opinions as long as you do it politely enough)

Originally Posted by inavalan

Thanks, didn't intend to offend non-duality believers. Just stated how I see reality. (I noticed that it's okay to state, even on thematic forums, alternate opinions as long as you do it politely enough)

No offence taken. I was just clarifying why I worded my post as I did.

[LadyVictoria]

Last night before bed I watched a program on youtube about an interdisciplinary consortium's look at the question of free will.

(For some reason this forum won't let me post links - it says I need 15 post or more but I have that so I'll have to contact admin but until I can add these links if you want to watch the video or read the article you can search the title)

Youtube Video: Closer to the Truth: Big Questions in Free Will

The most interesting thing I found on this program was a study where they had participants read an article and after they read the article they were given a math test where they could cheat the test if they wanted to.

Some participants were given an article about neuroscience finding that free will is an illusion and that there is no free will, and another group of participants were not.

The participants who read that there was no such thing as free will were actually more inclined to cheat than those that were't indoctrinated in this idea that free will is an illusion.

So regardless if free will is true or false, our belief in it or not in it has an impact on our behavior.

So far these experiments have been done by two separate researchers and here is a brief article on those studies.

Article: Destined to Cheat: New Research Finds Free Will Can Keep Us Honest published by the Association for Psychological Science

From a sociological point of view man's belief in the idea of having free will is overall beneficial to society as a whole.

Now another point that was brought up in that video from one researcher. I think he was a sociologist who was studying self control felt that we did have free will however when we assert our will it weakens us, it's a energy draining endeavor. And they conducted experiments to show how the decision making process causes muscle weakness within the subject.

As I meditate more and more on this subject I definitely feel caught in a feedback loop. From my own personal experience I would assert that I do have a will because I've used this tool called will power many many times in my life and I've gotten results. As far as I'm concerned there is definitely something in that.

For people who don't think they have free will or have any control of their life's journey and destination I wonder what their life experience is like in comparison to a person who not only believes they have free will but asserts it as well.

Our beliefs systems definitely impact our direct life experiences of this I have no doubt. I think this shows how our experience of reality is actually a reflection of consciousness in all it's infinite forms but inherently it has no existence.

I was very resistant to this idea at first because how can it not exist if I'm having an experience of it. If I'm experiencing it it must exists. But really if it's just a reflection of that which my conscious awareness wishes to see and experience based my thought patterns i.e. beliefs about reality then what's the actual reality.

When I get to this point where both everything exists and yet simultaneously nothing exists I cannot help by smile, laugh and rejoice at the shear absurdity of it all!