Where Do We Go at Death if not heaven or hell?

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by VinceField

It is not impossible. Dating methods have proven to be unreliable. Modern day objects have been fasely dated as hundreds of thousands of years to even millions of years old. Professionals working in the field have come out and admitted as much. But more importantly, the Bible never says how old the Earth is. You are using an interpretation of man regarding the word of God to try to refute that word. Yet another illogical approach. And again, it is not a science book and one does not need to have all scientific knowledge to be inspired by God. At this point you are simply repackaging the same argument that has already been refuted.

You need to repent and put your faith in Christ. Stop rejecting God's free gift to you. It will be your life's biggest regret.

You're talking about creationist science, they refuse to accept anything that isn't right up their alley and reject commonly accepted facts that are proven right. They promote the same kind of hogwash that the Earth is flat while that isn't the case. The bible states that life has been around only for about 6000 years ago, which is false. Real science has proven that our true ancestors are the stars; we are all stardust. No god has created us. We came from the stars and thats how it is.

I don't need to repent from anything. If that sadistic tyrant god of yours happens to be real, then I wish him a billion times worse than what he has put me through.

[davidmartin]

well Sky, Vince is arguing from the biblical Christian stand point using scripture as a reference frame. Its a bit hard to bring ego into this, rather you feel differently about what the scriptures really mean perhaps..
Repentance is a tricky one
What I feel Vince is suggesting is repentance is also tied to accepting the beliefs of biblical Christianity (for want of a better phrase I guess, acceptable to all). So the two go hand in hand
Coming from the mystical side of the faith I don't see it as black and white as this
The repentance is a turning toward God with the whole heart
That doesn't have to mean accepting all the beliefs, although it does if you plan to become a biblical Christian! But the turning to God is a good thing in itself
I probably don't want to put words in your mouth again but i'm guessing you might say that you are using the understanding and discernment God gives everyone as your authority.

The main area I differ from Vince's statements is I think God wants our ego's, all of us really. Nothing is put aside, its transformed. It may be a figure of speech but something put aside doesn't change

Also, I think there is legalisms and a kind of law in biblical Christianity that is untrue. It's hard to define it but it's opposed really to Jesus that I know. I often imagine him walking into a church and ripping into the preachers just like he did the pharisees. But what can anyone say to convince them to relax!

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

You're talking about creationist science, they refuse to accept anything that isn't right up their alley and reject commonly accepted facts that are proven right. They promote the same kind of hogwash that the Earth is flat while that isn't the case. The bible states that life has been around only for about 6000 years ago, which is false. Real science has proven that our true ancestors are the stars; we are all stardust. No god has created us. We came from the stars and thats how it is.

I don't need to repent from anything. If that sadistic tyrant god of yours happens to be real, then I wish him a billion times worse than what he has put me through.

When I look at the Bible's creation accounts in Hebrew, It looks to me there are several different writers which have their own style and viewpoint. For example, the first creation account (Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3) is written by one chap who promotes Elohim (translated as God in English translations).

In Genesis 2:4 the second creation account begins and the introduction of Yahweh. This account is written by another person.

The Genesis accounts resonate to me like how the Talmud is written where numerous opinions are looked at for one particular subject.

As for creation occurring 6000 years ago: no geological evidence supports that belief.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by VinceField

Biblically speaking, true heaven or paradise will be a restored and perfect version of Earth that will manifest after the second coming of Christ, and true hell will be open at that time as well. Until then, those who are saved will wait in the spiritual world with God and those who are not will wait in a type of temporary pre-hell dimension.

Ancient Jews believed that all souls went to a place called Hades or Sheol after death, similar to hell. As the time of Christ approached, they idea of a paradise or heaven became more prevelant.

Scriptures do not seem to claim "Heaven" and "Paradise" as being the same.

The original "Paradise" was not a "Heaven".

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well, this so-called knowledge of god also states that god created the earth 6000 years ago, which is IMPOSSIBLE. So don't try to climb around it. The only thing that is easily refuted here is that fairytale book of yours.

According to some, there are other gods.

The Hindu/Buddhist teachings teach of the triune Supreme God Trimuriti who has created and destroyed worlds that seem to go back and beyond the creation of our own Universe.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

When I look at the Bible's creation accounts in Hebrew, It looks to me there are several different writers which have their own style and viewpoint. For example, the first creation account (Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3) is written by one chap who promotes Elohim (translated as God in English translations).

In Genesis 2:4 the second creation account begins and the introduction of Yahweh. This account is written by another person.

The Genesis accounts resonate to me like how the Talmud is written where numerous opinions are looked at for one particular subject.

As for creation occurring 6000 years ago: no geological evidence supports that belief.

Gen1. God creates plants, then animals, and then simultaneously creates man and woman. In Gen 2. God creates a human, plants, then animals, and later he divides the human into female and male.

They can't even decide what was created first, plants or humans

I personally prefer Gen1 as it fits in with my belief in Evolution.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

According to some, there are other gods.

The Hindu/Buddhist teachings teach of the triune Supreme God Trimuriti who has created and destroyed worlds that seem to go back and beyond the creation of our own Universe.

Buddhists do not believe in a triune supreme God BJ.... Suttas/Sutras do not contain these teachings.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Gen1. God creates plants, then animals, and then simultaneously creates man and woman. In Gen 2. God creates a human, plants, then animals, and later he divides the human into female and male.

They can't even decide what was created first, plants or humans

I personally prefer Gen1 as it fits in with my belief in Evolution.

Both accounts apparently were written by different people.

[sky]

Originally Posted by VinceField

It's not that you "need" to repent if you know and feel that you've done something wrong. In the Christian perspective (and thus in reality since the Bible is true), you need to repent because God demands it. You are not able to repent unless you know and feel you were wrong. But necessity is relative. You need to repent if you want salvation. If you don't care about your eternal life, you don't need to repent.

In assuming the position of the final authority in decisions of morality and conscience, you are the one with the ego problem. Do you really think your understanding and discernment is above that of your creator? Christians acknowledge our faults and understand the power of God who is above us all in all ways, including matters of morality, and thus put our egos aside and bow to Him. A strong ego would never allow that.

My commanding others to repent is not from my judgement, it is a direct command of God. I'm simply relaying his message. I'm not judging you no more than I am recognizing that your faith is not in Christ and thus you do not have salvation.

I also thought exactly as you do, but thankfully grew out of these ideas as a child.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Both accounts apparently were written by different people.

Yes obviously.