Question on Atlantis and Lemuria and MORE WONDER's

Originally Posted by Gem

Don't the rather civilized and advanced Atlantians even have a map of thier own country, like a map of Australia, which I can recall and redraw.

Let's see, grazier, did you have that map last or was it Greenslades turn to take care of it? Oh.. it was my turn to have the map?? But I had that house fire 21 years ago! Do you think maybe it got lost or burned to a cinder? Hmmm...let me look again for that 10,000 year old map,it has to be here somewhere~~~~

I am sorry gem, but I don't have a photo or map of Summerland or Atlantis, but I have been there and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. I remember Atlantis. I remember a lot of different lives and places that I have lived. And I can't provide maps or photos. Some have been wiped off the face of the earth or changed by glaciation or earthquakes, even rising water levels.
Anyone who is not inclined to bellieve that such a country ever existed, that is all well and good. I won't ask anyone why they don't believe. I won't ask you to prove that it does not exist. And I never try to force anyone to believe in my own beliefs. I state why I believe a thing, I will discuss it if they have similar beliefs, but I will not force my views on someone with different views. And I won't to go to any lengths to try to convince them. If you don't believe, then don't. If you are curious, do research. I am trying to not be rude, but getting tired of being grilled about this.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Summerland

And it existed for quite some time, which means that it would be constanly changin, new places built, old destroyed.

What is quite some time?

Originally Posted by Summerland

Now add on the distant memory coming from 10,000 years ago. Even if someone could provide evidence, there will always be those who would still deny it.

LOL well first things first, let's get the evidence.

Originally Posted by Summerland

10 years ago science insisted that homosapiens could never have intermingled with Neanderthals. Then they decided that, yes, they could mate, but never have offspring. They discovered that they were wrong once more and found out that homosapiens not only interbred with Neanderthals, but did indeed have fertile offspring. Now they have discovered another component of the human species that they had no clue that it existed. However there are still die hard fundamentalists out there still staunchly saying that homosapiens could never have intermingled with Neanderthals.

The difference is that we know Neanderthal existed, there is evidence for that. I don't doubt that the unknown species of human that has been found will be used to fit the gaps of mystical New Age beliefs. The same thing happens with quantum mechanics, energy, and black holes. They embrace certain elements, recombine others, and in this process change the use of it in such a way that validates the beliefs.

CHRYSAETOS, I never implied that the New Age belief system would benefit in any way, shape or form from the new evidence regarding Neanderthals. I was using that as an analogy as to how quickly facts can change.
Again, you and a couple of other posters are needing the evidence that Atlantis existed; I don't.. Some of you have the need to have concrete
proof. Not in my job description to supply it.
For want of a better title' the Atlantean kin- folk' have the proof that we need. It is our gain and your loss. And I will ask the same question that greenslade asked of you, but you didn't answer. Why is it that you are on a spiritual forum when it seems as if your purpose is to challenge most of the beliefs that are brought up?
You have said that your spiritual journey led you in a circle of sorts back to questioning everything and not believing in 'new-agey' stuff and that you feel that you should bring the realization of all the mumbo jumbo to the ones who are on their journey. So why are you here?
In turn, we could demand answers from you to prove to us that Atlantis did not exist and we could refute you on every turn of the way. And it could go on and on into infinity. So again I am saying, Let us agree to disagree.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Summerland

I never implied that the New Age belief system would benefit in any way, shape or form from the new evidence regarding Neanderthals. I was using that as an analogy as to how quickly facts can change.

Knowledge does change, but there are some established facts. Continents do not disappear to the depths of the ocean without any evidence left behind.

Originally Posted by Summerland

Again, you and a couple of other posters are needing the evidence that Atlantis existed; I don't.. Some of you have the need to have concrete proof. Not in my job description to supply it.

Ok, we disagree on this point.

Originally Posted by Summerland

For want of a better title' the Atlantean kin- folk' have the proof that we need. It is our gain and your loss.

Why do you make this personal? I am interested in mythology and I like to examine the hypotheses made about it. I am not only interested in geological evidence, but I am interested in the language, environment, climate, wildlife, religion, customs, and more about the place as well. Although there is no evidence for all of these things, it does give me a picture about it.

Originally Posted by Summerland

And I will ask the same question that greenslade asked of you, but you didn't answer. Why is it that you are on a spiritual forum when it seems as if your purpose is to challenge most of the beliefs that are brought up?
You have said that your spiritual journey led you in a circle of sorts back to questioning everything and not believing in 'new-agey' stuff and that you feel that you should bring the realization of all the mumbo jumbo to the ones who are on their journey. So why are you here?
In turn, we could demand answers from you to prove to us that Atlantis did not exist and we could refute you on every turn of the way. And it could go on and on into infinity. So again I am saying, Let us agree to disagree.

There is nothing wrong with challenging beliefs. I am sceptical and interested in truth, cheerleading is not my cup of tea.
The New Age does contain a lot of mumbo jumbo, there are countless books and internet sites that are full of fantasies. It does worry me that it's so widely spread in our age and I see many people swallow it up while dropping critical thinking and reason.

The burden of proof lies with the believers. Even so, I have given various reasons why it is illogical to believe Atlantis existed.
It is very likely however that Santorini was the inspiration for the story of Atlantis. I have read Plato's work and I know Socrates' concern about a perfect state.

If I could give you concrete answers, I would. But what I have read about Atlantis from various sources either ring true or false. Since my first detailed memory was when I was about seven and the story that I wrote about it, is now gone /destroyed I no longer have the finely detailed memories. I remember bits and snatches, snapshots of that time. Especially the emotional period of time prior to my death. I died when I was in training to be a priestess in one of the healing temples . I had been brought to the temple when I was about 12, chosen by the priests and priestesses. There I stayed except for brief outings. I remember brightly colored sails on the ships crowding the harbors. Atlantis was the name of the country and the capitol city. A lot of the important buildings were made out of a pink mable-like stone or white marble, sometimes with streaks of gold or silver threading thru-out. In the parks I remember large birds like our peacocks except theyy were pure white with turquoise markings. Ther were multitudes of temple caves all over the country (which was about the size of Australia) and on the surrounding smaller islands. Most everyone wore some type of tunics and they were of different lengths. The adult women wore their hair up in coils. The younger females left their hair down.
But as wonderful as this all sounds, it will certainly not be enought proof for you. Imagine buildings that resemble the Acropolis, except new and glowing. Now imagine those pillars and temples crashing down from earthquakes and a volcano spewing lava in the distance, hear people screaming as the debris crush limbs, but do not kill always. Imagine wishing that you had been one of the citizens who decided to leave and strike off for far shores.
And that is all that you will get from me. You weren't there; if you did you would not have forgotten the great beauty and the great devastation happening in waves over a period of life times. And this means nothing to you,because you weren't there and you can't imagine beauty and horror of that kind unless you have experienced it. You look at it academically while we do not; we look at it thru the eyes of people who saw their families , homes and land destroyed. Not just one generation did we reincarnate there for; we chose to reincarnate many times with the same loved ones.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Summerland

In the parks I remember large birds like our peacocks except theyy were pure white with turquoise markings.

Peacocks are from Asia. If they would exist on Atlantis (presuming it was in the Atlantic Ocean) we would find traces of subspecies on the surrounding continents today.
But these are actually the kind of examples that can help us in our quest.

Originally Posted by Summerland

Ther were multitudes of temple caves all over the country (which was about the size of Australia) and on the surrounding smaller islands.

If Atlantis was really about the size of Australia, then there would be tremendous evidence all over the place today. A continent of that magnitude cannot just be taken by the sea. Remember that the oceans are very deep, so if there was such a huge continent only 10000 years ago, the evidence would be overwhelming and everywhere. Even if it didn't disappeared in one night, then still there should be overwhelming evidence for such a young continent.

Originally Posted by Summerland

But as wonderful as this all sounds, it will certainly not be enought proof for you.

It does sound nice, but I am searching for proof.

Originally Posted by Summerland

And this means nothing to you,because you weren't there and you can't imagine beauty and horror of that kind unless you have experienced it.

Maybe so, I can't tell.
However, personal experiences don't come in a vacuum. ;)

My five pennies worth: Atlantis does not have to be in this dimension any more, neither does Lemuria. Neither do we need to find proof from Mars of any civilization ever living there, yet there's life right now, in other dimensions. As there is life in the Sun, Venus, everywhere. The proof? I would suggest meditation until we reach an awareness/level of consciousness where we are able to visit those dimensions and find the proof for ourselves. We don't really need to convince anyone else.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Sira

The proof? I would suggest meditation until we reach an awareness/level of consciousness where we are able to visit those dimensions and find the proof for ourselves. We don't really need to convince anyone else.

Our inner experiences are influenced by outer stimuli. A Christian will experience a Jesus while meditating and a Hindu might see a Krishna. The culture, beliefs, and ideologies provide us with the raw material out of which we fashion our experiences. Having a personal experience does not mean we are presented with the facts.

Just because I dreamed about spaghetti monsters and purple bears, does not mean they actually exist..

Chrysaetos, believe me. You are able to detach yourself from all belief structures that you have ever held. It requires (normally) a lot of inner work. Then you will see your truths, naked and bare.
When you say that "our inner experiences are influenced by outer stimuli" you are telling me in essence that you are imprisoned by that belief. I am not.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Sira

Chrysaetos, believe me. You are able to detach yourself from all belief structures that you have ever held. It requires (normally) a lot of inner work. Then you will see your truths, naked and bare.
When you say that "our inner experiences are influenced by outer stimuli" you are telling me in essence that you are imprisoned by that belief. I am not.

The fact that you say ''your truths'' is revealing.
Our inner experiences are influenced by outer stimuli, obviously. It is not a belief. It's no coincidence people's mystical experiences are shaped by their upbringing, culture, religion, ideology and more.