When people try argue against veganism

[mogenblue]

I understand what you say, Rosie. I agree with you for a large part. I am very cautious to protect my comfort zone. That is no more then plain common sense.

But there is reason enough to reach out to other people to inform them about the benefits of a plant based diet. But you have to be careful how to do it. Don't waste your energy on people who will never change at all. That's useless.
I try to look for people that are open to at least listen to you. Or find a way to express myself that leaves me in my comfort zone.

Jesus didn't need to come to earth and tell people about love. He could just as well have stayed away. But He chose to incarnate here and live the life He did. Jesus was an exception. There is no need at all for me or anyone to go to the same lengths as He did. But He did make a statement.

If you reach out to other people well enough then your own comfort zone will benefit from that too. When you help other people, it will come back to you in ways you never imagined. And that will improve the quality of your life. I have experienced that myself.

There is nothing wrong in believing in a world where everybody lives in peace and harmony together. In fact, masters of light have all progressed so high by persisting in that ideal and work to handle according to that time and again. You don't get heaven by itself or for nothing. You have to make it your own, by your own persistant efforts. You build it brick by brick, by your own thoughts and your own actions. Constantly working to improve yourself. Staying on the side and doing nothing will not get you much further.

You can wait until you arrive in the afterlife and then start working on that, but you can do it here too.

If people in my country would move more towards plant based food cost for healthcare would go down. The quality of life of many people would improve. Many diseases are related to poor diet choices and not enough excercise.
The money that would be saved on healthcare could be spent on other things. There is nothing as easy as spending money.
There is more then enough scientific research that support that.
And the animals would benefit from that too.
And the environment.

My parents and forefathers have worked hard to give me the prosperity in which I live now. It is really not much effort for me at all to make a little contribution to that and try to make this society a little better then before.
What am I going to say to them when they await me in the afterlife?

How do I think to attune myself to their level?



It's not a matter of distance, but inner feeling, conscious.

[Debrah]

Hi mogenblue. A question here, how do you know that someone will never change? Bob Comis was a pig farmer who used to blog about farming pigs in the Huffington Post. He's a vegan now. Howard Lyman ran a herd of 7000 beef cattle operation and a massive dairy farm for 20 years and now he's a vegan. Somebody made a statement to them and they changed and compassion became their mantra.

Seeds are tiny (a sentence, an image, a vegan meal...) but which of us can know when we plant them?

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Hi mogenblue. A question here, how do you know that someone will never change? Bob Comis was a pig farmer who used to blog about farming pigs in the Huffington Post. He's a vegan now. Howard Lyman ran a herd of 7000 beef cattle operation and a massive dairy farm for 20 years and now he's a vegan. Somebody made a statement to them and they changed and compassion became their mantra.

Seeds are tiny (a sentence, an image, a vegan meal...) but which of us can know when we plant them?

Well said. Every great truth is at first resisted, ridiculed and rejected. But in the end, the light shines through.

[mogenblue]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Hi mogenblue. A question here, how do you know that someone will never change? Bob Comis was a pig farmer who used to blog about farming pigs in the Huffington Post. He's a vegan now. Howard Lyman ran a herd of 7000 beef cattle operation and a massive dairy farm for 20 years and now he's a vegan. Somebody made a statement to them and they changed and compassion became their mantra.

That's great, Debrah. I didn't know Bob Comis or Howard Lyman, but every change towards more plant based food is welcome.

Originally Posted by Debrah

Seeds are tiny (a sentence, an image, a vegan meal...) but which of us can know when we plant them?

Do you think you should give up your comfort zone to plant them?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Well said. Every great truth is at first resisted, ridiculed and rejected. But in the end, the light shines through.

One day the light will shine through the notion of a great truth, and once relieved of that narrow confine, there becomes far more nuanced understanding.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Hi mogenblue. A question here, how do you know that someone will never change? Bob Comis was a pig farmer who used to blog about farming pigs in the Huffington Post. He's a vegan now. Howard Lyman ran a herd of 7000 beef cattle operation and a massive dairy farm for 20 years and now he's a vegan. Somebody made a statement to them and they changed and compassion became their mantra.

Seeds are tiny (a sentence, an image, a vegan meal...) but which of us can know when we plant them?

It could equally be said that people who were once inclined to a vegan diet now partake of animal products, and I suggest the vegan=compassion paradigm is fundamentally flawed. This is not to say that that there are not valid ethical reasons for having a vegan diet. There certainly are. It's just that people who consume animal products are not inherently less compassionate than vegans.

[mogenblue]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's just that people who consume animal products are not inherently less compassionate than vegans.

I agree with that.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by mogenblue

I agree with that.

Though the animals hanging upside down on a meat hook, or those waiting in line to have their throats slit, might disagree with you on that one.

Trying to live compassionately, the dinner plate is a good place to start.

[mogenblue]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Though the animals hanging upside down on a meat hook, or those waiting in line to have their throats slit, might disagree with you on that one.

Trying to live compassionately, the dinner plate is a good place to start.

I am quite sure they disagree with me. But as I have said before, I you tell people about the poor living conditions that live stock lives in they usually turn away and say you have to eat. That is the reality of today.

Just yesterday another scandal was reported about animal abuse in Germany. I would have happened on farms that were owned by agriculture directors of German organisations for animal farms: Zentralverband der Deutschen Schweineproduktion, a turkey farming organization, farmers federation DBV.

I don't know if anyone read about that in the UK, US, Australia or elsewhere.
Here is a Dutch article:
http://nos.nl/artikel/2134078-promin...handeling.html

Nevertheless, I think people should be confronted with that.
Animal farming is a world of difference compared with the 1960's or before. The industry and meat-business makes a lot of effort to make people believe they still live in that time.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by mogenblue

I am quite sure they disagree with me. But as I have said before, I you tell people about the poor living conditions that live stock lives in they usually turn away and say you have to eat. That is the reality of today.

Just yesterday another scandal was reported about animal abuse in Germany. I would have happened on farms that were owned by agriculture directors of German organisations for animal farms: Zentralverband der Deutschen Schweineproduktion, a turkey farming organization, farmers federation DBV.

I don't know if anyone read about that in the UK, US, Australia or elsewhere.
Here is a Dutch article:
http://nos.nl/artikel/2134078-promin...handeling.html

Nevertheless, I think people should be confronted with that.
Animal farming is a world of difference compared with the 1960's or before. The industry and meat-business makes a lot of effort to make people believe they still live in that time.

Yes, out of sight, out of mind - and for a reason.

The Livestock Industry isn't just abusing and destroying billions of animals, it's destroying the planet too.
Even the UN and world governments acknowledge this fact, which is why they are looking into test tube meat and insects as alternative protein sources. Though why they don't just advocate a plant-based diet ....