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  #31  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:15 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Sorry to dump my negative garbage in this lane, but no.... I'm not really religious and still this reality appears as anything but perfect to me. From my personal experience, nothing in this reality makes any sense at all.
Add 'yet' to the above sentence and repeat it mentally for a while and see if any different 'happens'. Discoveries in the field of Quantum Physics (besides what WabiSabi says) suggests that any thing that can happen ... will!

This does not depend on one's being 'religious' (in the 'normal' sense pf the word). You just have to want to and then, at least provisionally, believe that you can 'collapse' the 'wave function' in a different 'way' such that a different possible configuration becomes real, O' Not Yet 'Living' In The 'light' and so Bummed 'Out' (Of It) person.

Here's something to play with (your 'seriousness' may be killing 'you', methinks), it may help you 'lighten up' (if you don't expect 'too much' from it):

Blurb: This can be seen as two completely different things. Try to find both. If you're having trouble seeing the second, try looking at the picture from a distance. Sometimes that helps:




And here's another picture to give you another possibly change-inducing experience (I speak as an experienced psycho--therapeutic meta-physician!). Whichever 'way' you first imagine the fella in the following picture choosing to go, next imagine him choosing the 'other' one. To get the benefit of this exercise, you have to play with your imagination:

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  #32  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:41 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Add 'yet' to the above sentence and repeat it mentally for a while and see if any different 'happens'. Discoveries in the field of Quantum Physics (besides what WabiSabi says) suggests that any thing that can happen ... will!

This does not depend on one's being 'religious' (in the 'normal' sense pf the word). You just have to want to and then, at least provisionally, believe that you can 'collapse' the 'wave function' in a different 'way' such that a different possible configuration becomes real, O' Not Yet 'Living' In The 'light' and so Bummed 'Out' (Of It) person.

Here's something to play with (your 'seriousness' may be killing 'you', methinks), it may help you 'lighten up' (if you don't expect 'too much' from it):

Blurb: This can be seen as two completely different things. Try to find both. If you're having trouble seeing the second, try looking at the picture from a distance. Sometimes that helps:




And here's another picture to give you another possibly change-inducing experience (I speak as an experienced psycho--therapeutic meta-physician!). Whichever 'way' you first imagine the fella in the following picture choosing to go, next imagine him choosing the 'other' one. To get the benefit of this exercise, you have to play with your imagination:


The first picture was rather easy and took me a few seconds to see both figures in it (a black metal guy wearing corpse paint and a guy playing a trumpet) That's a good sign? But as for the second picture, I don't really know what to do with it because I suppose it's ''cheating'' if I imagine him going right first but suddenly walking back and going for the left way.
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for the green valleys where dragons fly
for the glory the power to win the black lord
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  #33  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:49 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WabiSabi
I was just curious to hear people's thoughts on the matter of whether or not this reality is inherently perfect.

It seems to me that a lot of religious or "spiritual" people that I have talked to firmly believe that this reality is imperfect, that it is not the way that it should be, and that things need to change in order for there to be some sort of harmony or resolution to "God's Plan". Most of these people believe that a majority of the population are "asleep" to Truth, and that by "waking up" the world will become a better place.

However, numerous teachings as well as my own experiences lead me to believe that this reality is perfectly patterned, and that all is as it should be. That nothing need be achieved, and that the world is already perfect. That there is already balance and harmony within that which is Absolute. That all action to make the world a better place is simply changes in a pattern that has always been and will always be complete.

Thanks for your time!

Hi WabiSabi,
I would strongly encourage you to first examine the overarching assumption, or unconscious premise which allows the “Either/Or” paradigm - for example, as laid out in your OP - to represent (or speculate on) ultimate utility in these matters.

It is that very binary paradigm itself which serves to obscure the real circumstance, by the necessarily imposed exclusion of one of the two models, solely by virtue of the other model’s inclusion as sole truth…when really both are true - - they are not mutually exclusive. And not only that, one is derivative of, and dependent on the other.


In the Cosmic Will, everything is perfect, because the Cosmic Will faultlessly supports the dynamic evolution of consciousness in the physical universe including and allowing - all ignorance and inconscience, partial awareness, limitation, and (ironically - or not!) imperfection which is dynamically differentiated into necessarily interdependent - and often conflicting - forces of individuated ‘will’. In this way, incessant change is always happening and is unavoidable. But it for the most part is within the illusion of freedom, that which is actually an imprisonment or bondage in subservience to the generalised forces of Nature, Maya as the ever-present basis for that dynamic evolution.

It is perfect, this ‘dance’ of reality in the physical, in the sense that everything is as it ‘should be’, IS, and cannot be anything else in the moment, even as it changes - a perfect manifestation of all forces in their unique dynamic interdependence within the multiplicity of Life, right now at this moment.

However, the Self itself cannot be FULLY perfect if the instrumental self in differentiated form has no awareness, or has a limited partial awareness of its True Nature or Real Self, and therefore operates as an instrument of this ignorance.

The purpose of the Transcendental Will, which the Cosmic Will serves - is for the incessant transformation, transcendence, and perfection of the Cosmic Ignorance, in all its forms and manifestations into the glory, light, delight, perfection, beauty, power, gnosis and real freedom of the infinite eternal Transcendental Being which is the source and real Reality of all - all consciousness, all existence - to be incessantly revealed and embodied fully, as the Creative expression of that infinite eternal all conscious Being.

If the Cosmic Will did not support and execute this Transcendental Will in its conditional ignorance, everything would remain eternally ignorant of Self, with no emerging aspiration for the evolving manifestation of True Being - just the manifestation of the relative play of finite ignorant formations - a ‘kind-of perfection’ yes, but not a ‘perfect’ perfection**.

It is therefore the Transcendental Will - which is present and available as a conscious force within us - that is the true perfection UNCONDITIONAL - which is inexorably emerging as evolving consciousness in the physical which is faultlessly, dynamically executed by the Cosmic Will as CONDITIONAL perfection.

Everything IS perfect, but we may consciously invoke concentrate and accelerate greater perfection, more perfect perfection as a conscious deliberate way of life in and through it, through an intelligent will. It is that conscious instrumental will in aspiring human life which is aligning with, as it increasingly surrenders to, the Transcendental Will.
** Otherwise, it's difficult to imagine that all the pain and suffering, confusion and frustration of Earthly life is somehow also a demonstration of this perfection, except for that it is conditional.

~ J
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:58 PM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir

It is perfect, this ‘dance’ of reality in the physical, in the sense that everything is as it ‘should be’, IS, and cannot be anything else in the moment............,
.........
~ J
A little mixed up here. Everything is - that's how it is.
It's impossible to say how it should be, equating that with is is a statement with which I can't agree.
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  #35  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:04 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
A little mixed up here. Everything is - that's how it is.
It's impossible to say how it should be, equating that with is is a statement with which I can't agree.
Hi Lorelyen,

Accepted.
But to clarify, that's also why I put 'should be' in half-quotes. It's (admittedly) a literary conceit which (perhaps lamely) accounts for the (illusory) passage of time, which is often a difficult sticking point in the sticky wicket of these metaphysical discussions.

iow,
If the baker bakes a cake, that's how it is.
If the baker puts sufficient chocolate into the cake, then it 'should be' a chocolate cake*...in the 'next moment'. Does the Universe support this? Yes. It allows for a consistency of will in the formation of the 'next-moment-reality', which inevitably becomes, 'this moment'.
*depending on what your threshold proportion is (haha).
~ J
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:07 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir

Everything IS perfect, but we may consciously invoke concentrate and accelerate greater perfection, more perfect perfection as a conscious deliberate way of life in and through it, through an intelligent will. It is that conscious instrumental will in aspiring human life which is aligning with, as it increasingly surrenders to, the Transcendental Will.


Profound imo and is a case in point imo that evidences it is not "perfect" yet. It just is and I want us to do better. In fact it fits very nicely with the post where davidsun points to the mind and it's potential and ability to look which is very good technique one can use to manifest this. imo it is important to understand potential thought versus non potential. In the QM mind potential is every possible potential existing at that the same time, being everywhere where once observation takes place moves from that state of everything that could be into being. It is at this moment everything vanishes. It becomes solid and material. It then is no longer everything. It is only the mind that can achieve or hold you back imo. It is my belief and I can't support or prove this btw, that Creator's will is different from our's and it is the mind that is able to transcend but we do not do this. This is why I say it is not perfect as in general we are not in touch with the potential. I also say each can point to flaws which itself can't be denied, I sorry. I think the transcendent mind is in a state of potential. The mind imo can turn thought back into everything but requires practice.

Regarding what you have said about surrendering we should have continued with it is not important if one does not surrender to this will because there is no judgment made if you do or do not because we are still in a state of potential and it is the mind that has the ability to enter the QM field.
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:13 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WabiSabi
I was just curious to hear people's thoughts on the matter of whether or not this reality is inherently perfect.

It seems to me that a lot of religious or "spiritual" people that I have talked to firmly believe that this reality is imperfect, that it is not the way that it should be, and that things need to change in order for there to be some sort of harmony or resolution to "God's Plan". Most of these people believe that a majority of the population are "asleep" to Truth, and that by "waking up" the world will become a better place.

However, numerous teachings as well as my own experiences lead me to believe that this reality is perfectly patterned, and that all is as it should be. That nothing need be achieved, and that the world is already perfect. That there is already balance and harmony within that which is Absolute. That all action to make the world a better place is simply changes in a pattern that has always been and will always be complete.

Thanks for your time!
Ironically what one believes about reality is the very reality they create. Personally I've come to a place where I really cannot know anything but I can choose to create the reality I wish for for all of life.
What I believe is that what I wish for is in line with what I cannot know.
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  #38  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:22 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Sorry to dump my negative garbage in this lane, but no.... I'm not really religious and still this reality appears as anything but perfect to me. From my personal experience, nothing in this reality makes any sense at all.
Or it could be pointing to that reality is free to not make sense or to make sense.
It is potentially anything and it's all connected.
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  #39  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:03 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
The first picture was rather easy and took me a few seconds to see both figures in it (a black metal guy wearing corpse paint and a guy playing a trumpet) That's a good sign? But as for the second picture, I don't really know what to do with it because I suppose it's ''cheating'' if I imagine him going right first but suddenly walking back and going for the left way.
Lol, bro! The other image (from the guy playing the trumpet) is a young and beautiful female face, the dark areas being black-in-contrast shaded areas, not "corpse paint" - that you 'saw' the latter shows how close you are to and so fixated on 'death'. [I would advise you to stay away from 'heavy metal' music if you are 'into' it, that is if you wish to take the 'other' path.]

And no, what you did is not really 'cheating' in relation to the second picture. The going 'back' (from where you are now) so as to be able to access the 'other' path at the fork is a very 'good' (hypnotic) 'suggestion' to you inner self (your subconcious 'being') which will result in your reaping positive dividends in the future (so I think).

Your 'signature' lines: "The dawn will never rise again for my eyes, And I will never sleep again, I've lost my hope time after time, Cause the light has vanished" clearly shows (communicates) that you are in very dark place, even zombie-paint-'black-blood'-ier than the anger which your screen name "SlayerOf Light" was chosen to indicate.

If the condition your are in is the result your having suffered (maybe even so long ago as to now be a 'dull' memory-recording) significant loss of someone or something you dearly loved, I would advise you to seek out a grief counselor or join and attend grief support group or at least read up on "the stages of grief" (an internet search will apprise you of writings on the subject).

On the other hand, if what you are experiencing is the result of an 'ego'-defeat and consequent process of 'ego'-'death' you are in the middle or hopefully near the 'end' of, then the following excerpt from the book I wrote may help you navigate your way through it. (I would suggest that you repeat the above 'fork in the road' exercise now and then nevertheless, to keep your unconscious 'self' positively oriented so it doesn't 'sabotage' the possibility of your butterfly-emerging from the 'darkness' of the hellish 'cocoon' you are presently in.)

"Fortunately, the very severity of the crises those who are errant bring upon themselves and subject others around them to also serves as a catalyst for positive change in those who have as yet underutilized capacity to acknowledge and constructively relate to the truth. Whether such eventuality is welcomed or not, sooner or later, particularly after repeated or lengthy trial and tribulation, when their strength is depleted, beleaguered individuals experience a state of psychospiritual ‘bankruptcy’, in which the hope of attaining idealization-fantasy fulfillment ‘dies’, and they starkly see that even seeking to compensate themselves for such unfulfillment by means of substitute desire-gratification dooms them to endless effort, if not utter frustration and futility.

They enter a phase, poetically alluded to as ‘the dark night of the soul’, characterized initially by feelings of upset and anger, then despair, followed by sadness, depression and, ultimately, resignation, in which yearning and [u]striving[u] for what they desire, because satisfaction continually eludes them, finally cease. Sense of purpose is lost. What they do or don’t do then matters little to them, if at all. Life seems a cruel joke, if not meaningless. The process continues, generally in waves and spurts, till they fully accept the fact that they cannot have things be the way them want them to be (or not be the way they want them not to be). In the end, truly humbled, they reach the point where they stop being egocentrically willful and demanding, whatever their personal predilection and preference may have been or yet be.

Then, because no longer preoccupied with dreams of idealization-fantasy fulfillment and schemes aimed at attaining the same, they begin to be open to truly savoring and appreciating actualities and possibilities that are inherent in, and so embrace and act to creatively enhance, their and others present condition and circumstance, whatever this happens to be. As a result of becoming disillusioned regarding the possibility of actualizing and enjoying what, because of comparison-based sensation and logic, they previously mentally and emotionally fixated on as ‘ideal’, by default as it were, without specifically intending to, they organically rediscover and reexperience the beauty and bounteousness of Life as is.

In due course, such rediscovery and reexperience sparks a conversion in one’s outlook and mode of operation. Because one then experientially knows disappointment and dissatisfaction to be idealization-associated blights, one becomes more wary of and less likely to be lured by fantasy-based temptations and, if and when one gets ‘snared’ by them, more quickly frees oneself from such entanglement by reestablishing wholesome relationship with what is in truth. Gradually, more and more often, and each time more fully, recognizing the bounteousness of experience and ongoing opportunity for discovery, development and joyful expression afforded by Life as It is to be a phenomenal boon,b one proceeds with an attitude of greater and greater appreciation and consequently love. As the quest for ‘more’ desire-satisfaction then becomes superfluous, one increasingly enjoys and, so, more and more ‘naturally’ acts to enhance developments in Life’s garden, whatever one’s situation and whoever one may be with. Such progression ‘naturally’ culminates in one’s actualizing totally positive modality and flourishing in complete psychospiritual communion with Life processes one is part and parcel of, as all one’s giving and receiving becomes geared to this.
"
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Last edited by davidsun : 09-11-2017 at 07:01 PM.
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  #40  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:50 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Lol, bro! The other image (from the guy playing the trumpet) is a young and beautiful female face, the dark areas being black-in-contrast shaded areas, not "corpse paint" - that you 'saw' the latter shows how close you are to and so fixated on 'death'. [I would advise you to stay away from 'heavy metal' music if your are 'into' it, that is if you wish to take the 'other' path.

And no, what you did is not really 'cheating' in relation to the second picture. The going 'back' (from where you are now) so as to be able to access the 'other' path at the fork is a very 'good' (hypnotic) 'suggestion' to you inner self (your subconcious 'being') which will result in your reaping positive dividends in the future (so I think).

Your 'signature' lines: "The dawn will never rise again for my eyes, And I will never sleep again, I've lost my hope time after time, Cause the light has vanished" clearly shows (communicates) that you are in very dark place, even zombie-paint-'black-blood'-ier than the anger which your screen name "SlayerOf Light" was chosen to indicate.

If the condition your are in is the result your having suffered (maybe even so long ago as to now be a 'dull' memory-recording) significant loss of someone or something you dearly loved, I would advise you to seek out a grief counselor or join and attend grief support group or at least read up on "the stages of grief" (an internet search will apprise you of writings on the subject).

On the other hand, if what you are experiencing is the result of an 'ego'-defeat and consequent process of 'ego'-'death' you are in the middle or hopefully near the 'end' of, then the following excerpt from the book I wrote may help you navigate your way through it. (I would suggest that you repeat the above 'fork in the road' exercise now and then nevertheless, to keep your unconscious 'self' positively oriented so it doesn't 'sabotage' the possibility of your butterfly-emerging from the 'darkness' of the hellish 'cocoon' you are presently in.)

"Fortunately, the very severity of the crises those who are errant bring upon themselves and subject others around them to also serves as a catalyst for positive change in those who have as yet underutilized capacity to acknowledge and constructively relate to the truth. Whether such eventuality is welcomed or not, sooner or later, particularly after repeated or lengthy trial and tribulation, when their strength is depleted, beleaguered individuals experience a state of psychospiritual ‘bankruptcy’, in which the hope of attaining idealization-fantasy fulfillment ‘dies’, and they starkly see that even seeking to compensate themselves for such unfulfillment by means of substitute desire-gratification dooms them to endless effort, if not utter frustration and futility.

They enter a phase, poetically alluded to as ‘the dark night of the soul’, characterized initially by feelings of upset and anger, then despair, followed by sadness, depression and, ultimately, resignation, in which yearning and [u]striving[u] for what they desire, because satisfaction continually eludes them, finally cease. Sense of purpose is lost. What they do or don’t do then matters little to them, if at all. Life seems a cruel joke, if not meaningless. The process continues, generally in waves and spurts, till they fully accept the fact that they cannot have things be the way them want them to be (or not be the way they want them not to be). In the end, truly humbled, they reach the point where they stop being egocentrically willful and demanding, whatever their personal predilection and preference may have been or yet be.

Then, because no longer preoccupied with dreams of idealization-fantasy fulfillment and schemes aimed at attaining the same, they begin to be open to truly savoring and appreciating actualities and possibilities that are inherent in, and so embrace and act to creatively enhance, their and others present condition and circumstance, whatever this happens to be. As a result of becoming disillusioned regarding the possibility of actualizing and enjoying what, because of comparison-based sensation and logic, they previously mentally and emotionally fixated on as ‘ideal’, by default as it were, without specifically intending to, they organically rediscover and reexperience the beauty and bounteousness of Life as is.

In due course, such rediscovery and reexperience sparks a conversion in one’s outlook and mode of operation. Because one then experientially knows disappointment and dissatisfaction to be idealization-associated blights, one becomes more wary of and less likely to be lured by fantasy-based temptations and, if and when one gets ‘snared’ by them, more quickly frees oneself from such entanglement by reestablishing wholesome relationship with what is in truth. Gradually, more and more often, and each time more fully, recognizing the bounteousness of experience and ongoing opportunity for discovery, development and joyful expression afforded by Life as It is to be a phenomenal boon,b one proceeds with an attitude of greater and greater appreciation and consequently love. As the quest for ‘more’ desire-satisfaction then becomes superfluous, one increasingly enjoys and, so, more and more ‘naturally’ acts to enhance developments in Life’s garden, whatever one’s situation and whoever one may be with. Such progression ‘naturally’ culminates in one’s actualizing totally positive modality and flourishing in complete psychospiritual communion with Life processes one is part and parcel of, as all one’s giving and receiving becomes geared to this.
"

Ok I'm not saying you are entirely wrong, but there are some points I want to make because I feel you are kinda making a mountain out of a molehill here. Although I do admit I didn't recognize the female face in the first picture, I completely made up the corpse paint part because it was the first thing it reminded me of, not because I actually thought that was it. The part about my signature lines are correct, but my screen name isn't because it's merely the title of a certain song which I randomly chose because I am not very creative with usernames. On the other hand, yes, you may be correct about the dark place I'm in (but that's irrelevant).

And how is it wrong to be into metal??? Metal has nothing to do with any of my personal situations. I find it totally ignorant of you to stereotype metal with anger and darkness. After having attended many concerts, I can tell you that metalheads are some of the happiest people you may ever see. I never witnessed any fights, brawls, or negativity at all, as everyone accepts each other the way they are in the metal community. In fact, people who are both unhappy AND into metal such as me tend to be kinda rare. And you should know that there are many positive and uplifting metal bands out there that inspire people and bring happiness.

You know, I have lost many people (including one of my parents at a young age) and my history aint not exactly composed of rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine. But whether you believe it or not, I care little for the past and you'll won't hear me wail about it. Rather, it's my FUTURE I am deeply concerned about, and finding that which I desperately seek. Yes, I cannot deny that it sucks to have a dark past, but it is not the main cause of my situation. In the end, the only thing that matters is the future. I'd rather live an early, hellish life with a bright future than an early happy life with a hopeless future.

Also, I hate to disappoint you but I have experienced no such thing as an ego-death and I don't want that neither because my ego is what identifies me among the billions of other humans living on this planet. It is basically my sense of self, and I don't want to lose that.
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for the green valleys where dragons fly
for the glory the power to win the black lord
I will search for the emerald sword
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