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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Auras & Chakras

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  #21  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:01 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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In Prokopton's words:

"All that said, if anyone claimed that kundalini was a miraculous process that totally changes a person, undoubtedly connects them with the divine in the most intimate of manners, absolutely is natural to all of us, certainly is cross-cultural, definitely has an effect on the biology as well as the spirit, explains a great deal of what the hell some traditions have been pointing at for thousands of years, and is absolutely a stunning, amazing, miraculous, spiritual adventure -- no argument from me. And that is pretty good going in itself."

YES 100% to the above - I do claim it!!! And more besides.....
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  #22  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
And the human experience becomes SATCHITANANDA - freedom from illusion, mergence in pure consciousness, and bliss
All that keeps the soul connected to the human body at this stage is a desire to help and a love for others still stuck in the chakras below.
Uma

If you think about the statement I hilited, you can see that it sends the message that there is no enjoyment in life itself and that the goal of the devotee is to transcend any love for the beauty of life as it is, for what you define as bliss and pure consciousness.
I have found that bliss can be found within life itself and I haven't clue if my chakras are opened, closed or out for repairs.
The message is disturbing IMO and misleading to those who are seekers.

James

Hi James,
You draw an understandable conclusion. The space of SATCHITANANDA is a space of bliss. Love is an emotion, and an energy emanation. It is possible to exist outside of that energy and just "BE". Ask anyone who understands Zen. The enlightened one is able to jump in and out of the space. That is why in the crown, one has infinite choices and can be detached from the world, or can choose to participate fully in it. In the ordinary human consciousness we are so caught up in the emotions, we do not see them as separate to ourselves. Thanks for bringing this up so I could clarify.

The crown chakra actually exists between the VOID of the egoless state and the experience of having form - any energy form. Attachment brings us back again and again to this world and love is the last attachment, the last umbilical chord to consciousness in a form. But I'm not getting into talking about VOID in this thread - that's all philosophy. Just getting to the crown is hard enough!
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  #23  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Prokopton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
YES 100% to the above - I do claim it!!!

Yes I think we knew that. :)

Quote:
And more besides.....

... that's the part makes me sigh. Belief and even personal experience cannot show some things, not yet. This is just the way human knowledge progresses, never all in a flash.

Clearly you are a 'true believer' in the particular way you go. I respect that... but it's so important to see the multiplicity of the kundalini process above all. It's not just one thing one way. That way lies fundamentalism.
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:21 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
Hi James,
You draw an understandable conclusion. The space of SATCHITANANDA is a space of bliss. Love is an emotion, and an energy emanation. It is possible to exist outside of that energy and just "BE". Ask anyone who understands Zen. The enlightened one is able to jump in and out of the space. That is why in the crown, one has infinite choices and can be detached from the world, or can choose to participate fully in it. In the ordinary human consciousness we are so caught up in the emotions, we do not see them as separate to ourselves. Thanks for bringing this up so I could clarify.

The crown chakra actually exists between the VOID of the egoless state and the experience of having form - any energy form. Attachment brings us back again and again to this world and love is the last attachment, the last umbilical chord to consciousness in a form. But I'm not getting into talking about VOID in this thread - that's all philosophy. Just getting to the crown is hard enough!

But what you implied earlier is that if this enlightened one choses to participate fully in life it is only to help others escape it. That implies that life or an attachment to life (which is a love for life IMO) needs to be transcended so that one can find this other bliss you speak of.........................I've been around a long time and have seen and done many things and that is not what life is about.
IMHO
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
But what you implied earlier is that if this enlightened one choses to participate fully in life it is only to help others escape it. That implies that life or an attachment to life (which is a love for life IMO) needs to be transcended so that one can find this other bliss you speak of.........................I've been around a long time and have seen and done many things and that is not what life is about.
IMHO

I'm not talking about renunciation, negating the world, living in a cave somewhere. I'm talking about living FULLY in the world from a space of transcendence. Sri Vasudeva calls it living in the eye of the hurricane. I have also seen this in action and I have glimpsed tiny pieces of it myself. All enlightened beings who know the space I speak of speak of the same experience. It is our home, our source. When we express the fullness of our being through all our chakras, it impacts on our world in a much greater way and in the experience of our world - everything is brighter, clearer and light is everywhere. (Of course for those who choose the cave, it is there also.)

The reason so many ascended Kundalini images look like sun worship is because the sun is a beautiful metaphor of our source. We are rays of one sun. Just as the sun and rays are one, so too we are one. This is the experience of enlightened consciousness, being in the crown chakra. To live on earth from such a space one has to engage the other chakras as well. The reason we live on earth in ordinary consciousness is work out karma from the first three chakras, the physical ones. The rest can be worked out in other realms.

The fact that we all dream or know what dreaming is, means there are other states of consciousness. Dreaming is mind. Subconscious space is memory, akasha. I'm saying these are also worlds and require some kind of energy form to exist in them.

In the crown space all forms are purified. The amazing thing is that all of us glimpse some tiny bit of this but we may not give attention to it. The identification with the body and mind is so powerful.

Dare to seek it. Ask the universe for a glimpse. You will get a response. There is nothing to be afraid of.
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
I'm not talking about renunciation, negating the world, living in a cave somewhere. I'm talking about living FULLY in the world from a space of transcendence. Sri Vasudeva calls it living in the eye of the hurricane. I have also seen this in action and I have glimpsed tiny pieces of it myself. All enlightened beings who know the space I speak of speak of the same experience. It is our home, our source. When we express the fullness of our being through all our chakras, it impacts on our world in a much greater way and in the experience of our world - everything is brighter, clearer and light is everywhere. (Of course for those who choose the cave, it is there also.)

The reason so many ascended Kundalini images look like sun worship is because the sun is a beautiful metaphor of our source. We are rays of one sun. Just as the sun and rays are one, so too we are one. This is the experience of enlightened consciousness, being in the crown chakra. To live on earth from such a space one has to engage the other chakras as well. The reason we live on earth in ordinary consciousness is work out karma from the first three chakras, the physical ones. The rest can be worked out in other realms.

The fact that we all dream or know what dreaming is, means there are other states of consciousness. Dreaming is mind. Subconscious space is memory, akasha. I'm saying these are also worlds and require some kind of energy form to exist in them.

In the crown space all forms are purified. The amazing thing is that all of us glimpse some tiny bit of this but we may not give attention to it. The identification with the body and mind is so powerful.

Dare to seek it. Ask the universe for a glimpse. You will get a response. There is nothing to be afraid of.

Transcending the world .....what exactly does that mean to you?
What does attachment mean to you? or detachment?
What does 'not identify with body and form' mean to you?
and lastly.....dare to seek what?

James
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Fish

Hi James,

Thankyou for these questions. I'll try to explain...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
Transcending the world .....what exactly does that mean to you?

It means to me being a space where I am separate to thoughts and emotions and body, a space of stillness, just witnessing, beingness. I have glimpsed this space. I wouldn't have believed it is possible to exist like this, but it is. It's an interdimensional space. Sounds like science fiction doesn't it? I guess it can be approximated through other, more ordinary experiences. So there is out of body experiences, which quite a few people on this forum have had, and going deeper there are varying degrees to which one can transcend (warp drive out of) the mental bodies as well. I'm not fully realized so I wouldn't try to explain what I don't know for myself. In the transcendental space, one feels like the driver of a complex vehicle within a vehicle, so this is the seat of power. I've struggled with emotional eating all my life but that time I was in this space, I could see my thoughts in slow motion and could easily choose which ones to accept or reject. As a result I effortlessly lost 30lbs. In one month, looked radiant and everyone wanted to know my secret. However I had not attained the crown and could not maintain it, so before I knew it (it took over a year) I fell back into the pull of body and mind consciousness and put all the weight back on. This to me is the essence of paradise lost, being stuck in the gravity of form with no way to master my own mind and body. I wish that everyone could have this experience. The world would be a more peaceful, loving space.

Quote:
What does attachment mean to you? or detachment?
Attachment is desire or aversion. I can be "I want" "I hate" or "I am XYZ". It's the ego, the part of me that is the experiencer pulling or pushing something towards me energetically. The "middle way" of Buddhism is "I don't care" or it can manifest as unconditional love, which is love with no strings attached. As long as there is attachment, there needs to be an attachee, an experiencer or ego, and therefore a form in which this ego can express its attachment. In the enlightened state, it is said that the karmic seeds of attachment are there in the causal body but they have no effect. In simple words, if someone who murdered me in a past life shows up in this one and part of me remembers them and some feeling of aversion rises up in the mind, if I am in the zone of detachment, I can witness the feeling as energy, not met, and I can transform it or disolve it - it has no power over me. Sri Vasudeva cslls this an aspect of emotional intelligence and it's one of the great perks of enlightened consciousness.

Quote:
What does 'not identify with body and form' mean to you?

Under a super electron microscope the physical world is reveales as energy, and some of the more enlightened (and daring) quantum physicists are saying that this energy comes from a "nothing", goes back into it and comes out of it again...so there is an idea of the source. Space and time are products of form. Without the movement of planets and suns we could have no concept of time. Similarly with form, from intention to energy to the elements...we get forms. This is devolution and it is encoded in the story of Genesis of how the world was created - not in 7 days but in 7 stages, from crown chakrq to root chakra. Evolution is the journey of Spirit (Kundalini) back to the crown. At the crown there is a choice - dissolve into formlessness and merge with the void, or, turn back and reenter the world of forms from a transcended awareness, to help others who are still struggling. A being such as this would not identify with their form. As Jesus said, "I and my Father are one.". The I has become the "we" of collective consciousness (all of us and everything put together). This is to attain a superhuman state whilst in a human body, and in the mental bodies inside the human one.

Quote:
and lastly.....dare to seek what?

Well all of the above...seek to know who or what you truly are. Think of how you thought of yourself and your world as a child and compare it to what you know now...and the invitation is to not stop there but to go inward and swim in the ocean of your being. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. I know people who dared to give it a shot and boy were they surprised when magical things startes happening in their lives - wow this is for real! The universe awaits your command. It won't create the proof unless you ask for it and show you mean it.

Well I invested a lot into this, hopefully not for nothing. I may not reply for a while because I'm packing now to go on a trip but I'll check in in a couple of days. I am actually going to a retreat hosted by Sri Vasudeva and will be meditating and reiking in a very high energy field, so if anyone wants me to pray for their transformation into higher consciousness, I'll be happy to add it to my own prayers for myself.
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2011, 06:51 PM
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Uma, sounds like you'll have a good retreat coming up.

When you have time, it would be great if you'd address the 10 points I gave earlier in the thread.
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2011, 06:54 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Hi Uma,
Thank you for explaining in more depth the meaning behind certain phrases you have made.
I'm really not asking to learn anything, I just feel it is hard to have a discussion if i assuming what you mean by these things.
There is a lot I can say in reply to your response but what seems adequate at this time is to just say that I hope you have a great retreat and by all means feel free to pray for me.
It brings me to higher consciousness just knowing that you care enough to pray for me to feel what you feel. And I believe you really do care.......so mission accomplished already.
Thank you for the discussion....much love......
Blessings, James
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2011, 07:02 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Prokopon,

I resent being labelled, especially as a fundamentalist which sounds like someone who is stuck in dogma. I am always reading new things and listening to new ideas and open to new experiences. I'm writing on this forum to present my ideas and my interpretations of ideas I have tested out on myself.
I'm trying to invite people to look at what they already know to be true and see if it doesn't relate to something that is common to everybody. For me, the model for that is Sri Vasudevw's teachings. He himself wasn't interested in Kundalini until Kundalini took hold of his life.

There is a way for each person and for each chakra that person is more attached to. Navel chakra people prefer physical activity, sporte, martial arts, hatha yoga... They get into the zone by working to a point where physical expeience jumps into energy and into higher awareness.

Then there are emotional people who love the way of the heart chakra, prqying, singing, doing service for others. Mother Teresa is a prime example, and through her love attained high awareness and experiences of her inner divinity.

Then there are brow chakra people, the intellectuals who study and question and anlalyze and become so knowledgeable it becomes innate, a part of their being.

Etc.....and a combination as well.

I'm saying Kundalini is both a pathway into the crown experience and the reality of who we are. It depends where you're situated. The greatest question a person can ask is "WHO AM I?"
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