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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #51  
Old 15-10-2010, 09:14 PM
Jules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
Thanks, shepherd. I often feel I'm labouring by myself when all I make the point that so many postings are based only on personal beliefs.

How folks feel that they understand 'stuff', their 'personal truths' (as so many would have it) is beyond me but I realise I'm in a small minority when I express such feelings

Ok, I've kept quiet upto now, but no more. Yes I maybe staff but I'm a member first and foremost and being honest that last statement I've found extremely offensive both to myself and other members.

What gives you the right to belittle someone on their diction and understanding of their own spiritual journey? By your own admission evidence and guidance are far better alternatives.... how did you come by that when you first started on your own pathway? Was it given to you in a dream? were you born with that all encompassing knowing? Or did you read books, find forums like this one, ask for guidance, listen to your intuition, learn the lessons life throws at you, then question question question, until the answer feels right in the pit of your stomach, the very depth of you .. and be guided to your answers, learning to grow through understanding and intent, accepting that your truth can change at any given moment, after all, we do have freewill
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  #52  
Old 15-10-2010, 09:15 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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LOL...well Mac...I don't pay much attention to the unexamined herd (i.e., those that lead an unexamined life), & never did so I'll just leave that...

I think it's both...it depends on where you started, and thus your perspective. But one leads to the other, if we are authentic in our search or on our journey.

And at a certain point, often fairly early...you do sense the "examined" collective. But that's not to say your own perspective, your own "truth" isn't valuable...after all, for you, it's still the most valuable thing of all, right? Anyway what's the collective without each of us to keep it real? LOL...

Peace,
7L
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  #53  
Old 15-10-2010, 10:34 PM
Jules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
Thanks, shepherd. I often feel I'm labouring by myself when all I make the point that so many postings are based only on personal beliefs.

How folks feel that they understand 'stuff', their 'personal truths' (as so many would have it) is beyond me but I realise I'm in a small minority when I express such feelings

Mac, I maybe staff but I'm a member first and foremost and being honest that last statement I've found extremely offensive both to myself and other members.

What gives you the right to belittle someone on their diction and understanding of their own spiritual journey? By your own admission evidence and guidance are far better alternatives.... how did you come by that when you first started on your own pathway? Was it given to you in a dream? were you born with that all encompassing knowing? Or did you read books, find forums like this one, ask for guidance, listen to your intuition, learn the lessons life threw at you, be guided to question question question, until the answer felt right in the pit of your stomach, then having synchronistic confirmation and validation, learning to grow through understanding and intent, accepting that your truth can change at any given moment without feeling guilt or fear.

Quote:
That may not be your way mac, but not everybody thinks the same way you do." ditto for your own approach
I have already stated that.


Quote:
The problem I find is that because individuals decide that something has been that way in their own lives, it's then a universal situation, the same for everyone, for all their lives too....
Look at it another way, it's a sharing. All one can do is express their view at that moment .. how else can it be when they haven't reached any other understanding?

Quote:
I accept that you can't accept my alternative but mine's an enabling rather than a prescriptive approach. My way - as you put it - is to allow that situations can be different for others elsewhere and not that one person's beliefs fit all others' situations.
Well, you've certainly not listened to a word I've said then, but that's fine it's your choice. I COMPLETELY accept you've got your approach, and that's as it should be. I've already told you I wouldn't even begin to try and change your mind (nor anyone else's). It's your own journey not mine.

Each and every one of us have our own lives to play out. We all have emotions, feelings, physical attributes, etc. But we all have one thing in common .. we are all Unique. We think differently, we look different, we act different, we perceive things differently. We are ALL individual people, with individual needs, wants... and minds, some able to retain information, some not, some wiser, some more sensible, some more talented .. you get the picture. Whilst your INTENT is admirable, PLEASE take a step back and realise until people are ready to move forward they won't be speaking the same language as you'd like them too.
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  #54  
Old 15-10-2010, 10:46 PM
mac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Ok, I've kept quiet upto now, but no more. Yes I maybe staff but I'm a member first and foremost and being honest that last statement I've found extremely offensive both to myself and other members.

What gives you the right to belittle someone on their diction and understanding of their own spiritual journey? By your own admission evidence and guidance are far better alternatives.... how did you come by that when you first started on your own pathway? Was it given to you in a dream? were you born with that all encompassing knowing? Or did you read books, find forums like this one, ask for guidance, listen to your intuition, learn the lessons life throws at you, then question question question, until the answer feels right in the pit of your stomach, the very depth of you .. and be guided to your answers, learning to grow through understanding and intent, accepting that your truth can change at any given moment, after all, we do have freewill

I am sorry that you feel offended - I meant to challenge, never to offend.

I can't relate to belittling anyone - my points were general and referred to no individual.


You asked, in terms of evidence and guidance, "....how did you come by that when you first started on your own pathway?" and went on accurately to answer the question. Other than website forums (still not invented) I did as you suggest but never did I express personal belief about matters spiritual. Sometimes I asked questions and I still do that....

But I searched for and found sound guidance from sources I respected. It underpinned my understanding and still does. What I express are not my ideas or beliefs but the guidance of those who I see as far more evolved than I can ever aspire to be even within a few more lifetimes...

My truth doesn't exist and hence can't change but my perspective does and can. I have already said enough about this and further debate is likely to cause upset. I don't want that.

To all those who are offended by the challenges I pose I apologise.
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  #55  
Old 15-10-2010, 11:23 PM
mac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Mac, I maybe staff but I'm a member first and foremost and being honest that last statement I've found extremely offensive both to myself and other members.

What gives you the right to belittle someone on their diction and understanding of their own spiritual journey? By your own admission evidence and guidance are far better alternatives.... how did you come by that when you first started on your own pathway? Was it given to you in a dream? were you born with that all encompassing knowing? Or did you read books, find forums like this one, ask for guidance, listen to your intuition, learn the lessons life threw at you, be guided to question question question, until the answer felt right in the pit of your stomach, then having synchronistic confirmation and validation, learning to grow through understanding and intent, accepting that your truth can change at any given moment without feeling guilt or fear.


I have already stated that.



Look at it another way, it's a sharing. All one can do is express their view at that moment .. how else can it be when they haven't reached any other understanding?


Well, you've certainly not listened to a word I've said then, but that's fine it's your choice. I COMPLETELY accept you've got your approach, and that's as it should be. I've already told you I wouldn't even begin to try and change your mind (nor anyone else's). It's your own journey not mine.

Each and every one of us have our own lives to play out. We all have emotions, feelings, physical attributes, etc. But we all have one thing in common .. we are all Unique. We think differently, we look different, we act different, we perceive things differently. We are ALL individual people, with individual needs, wants... and minds, some able to retain information, some not, some wiser, some more sensible, some more talented .. you get the picture. Whilst your INTENT is admirable, PLEASE take a step back and realise until people are ready to move forward they won't be speaking the same language as you'd like them too.


Netiquette please - I was told off by a moderator for using red text as it's considered shouting or angry.


You ask "...how else can it be when they haven't reached any other understanding?" I guess I can only say what I did? I was a dumb cluck - I studied, asked questions, found experiences and sought guidance until I understood what I was learning. I didn't have beliefs - what I didn't understand I continued to investigate until I did understand it - I still do the same...

"Well, you've certainly not listened to a word I've said then..." Wrong - I read every word but because I don't agree doesn't mean I haven't listened.

"Whilst your INTENT is admirable, PLEASE take a step back and realise until people are ready to move forward they won't be speaking the same language as you'd like them too." My intent is only to challenge - those who do not like the challenge are free to totally ignore me - many probably do.

But what of those who are ready to move forward, those who may wish to use the same language? Those who - perhaps - read these postings but do not write in response? If I take a step back because that's what you want me to do, then I will fail them....

And do you really think that I don't already know about all the things you point out, viz? "
Each and every one of us have our own lives to play out. We all have emotions, feelings, physical attributes, etc. But we all have one thing in commo................... and minds, some able to retain information, some not, some wiser, some more sensible, some more talented" I may be dumb but I'm not unaware of what you're trying to tell me. My words are for those who want to reply to my words - if someone doesn't want to, doesn't like what I say, then that's fine - they can simply ignore me - I do that myself to many others.

I don't try to change anyone's mind, I don't want them to do anything they don't want to. And others won't change mine UNTIL they present well-reasoned arguments that pull the rug out from under me.

I think that's a fair principle for us all to adopt, don't you?


Last edited by mac : 15-10-2010 at 11:26 PM.
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  #56  
Old 15-10-2010, 11:40 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Hallelujah. Well said Greenslade. I wouldn't be who I am today had it not been for the experiences I've had throughout my life. I wouldn't be who I am had I not had the accident that 'awakened' me, or my ex hubby leaving, all the health problems I have, all the trauma .. but you know what? I don't regret one thing .. they are all apart of who I am.
Every decision we make is perfect in that moment, so there are no bad choices, yes the outcome may seem negative, but you can guarantee that at some point the positives will appear.
Thank you, Jules.

I believe that experience makes us who and what we are - if we had gone through different experiences we would be very different people. Through all the good times and the bad, when you come out the other side and look the Universe in the eye to say "I'm still here and comfortable with the person I am. So what's next?" That about says it all for anyone.

Mac, that's a sad tale, and sometimes I wish I had a magic wand. All any of us can do is Honour the Path a particular Soul has chosen. However, from my perspective there's one factor you haven't taken into account - people. If you took a dozen people from there forums and put them in the same situation, you would find a dozen different outcomes. Everyone is different and there's a host of factors that can make the difference in that particular situation - a very simplified version of what 7luminaries is saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherd
I used to believe that we had a certain time and date when we were due to pass over but now I realise that the belief just makes us feel better and gives us a reason as to why people die when they do. If this belief was true then people who die of cancer from smoking for example were fated then to die that way and therefore fated to smoke. It doesnt ring true really.

Whilst we wonder how, when or why we will die, would could live life the best way we know how until that moment when it happensas it really could be at any time.
People are going to die, It's Life as we know it. When your time is up there isn't much to stop it. Smoking or not is a choice, so the dying of cancer is the result of that choice. If that person had chosen not to smoke, perhaps they might have been run over by a bus. It's not the dying that's in question but the how.

Umm, might I suggest a stepping back and a catching of the breath here? It might be just my perception but I sense the energies in this thread are a little off the charts. :-)
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  #57  
Old 16-10-2010, 12:16 AM
mac
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"Mac, that's a sad tale, and sometimes I wish I had a magic wand. All any of us can do is Honour the Path a particular Soul has chosen. However, from my perspective there's one factor you haven't taken into account - people. If you took a dozen people from there forums and put them in the same situation, you would find a dozen different outcomes. Everyone is different and there's a host of factors that can make the difference in that particular situation - a very simplified version of what 7luminaries is saying."

Sad doesn't even begin to cover it - and yet you're the only one to respond at all to the desperately tragic story I told and the point I had tried - and totally failed - to make.

Amazing how contributors have ignored my piece totally and others have put their effort into attacking me personally....

Last edited by mac : 16-10-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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  #58  
Old 16-10-2010, 12:19 AM
mac
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"Umm, might I suggest a stepping back and a catching of the breath here? It might be just my perception but I sense the energies in this thread are a little off the charts. :-)" Serious issues raise deep emotions - we're only human.
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  #59  
Old 16-10-2010, 01:40 AM
Rumar
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Question, even if we're destined to die this way or decided by higher beings we are to die that way, how does that make it NOT an accident?
If you're supposed to die because someone accidentally dropped some equipment on you and thus killing you, this doesn't take it from being an accident. You were meant to die by an accident.

If God(s) decides hey lets have her die this way, then cause me to slip backward and when I throw my arms to catch my balance but in turn slaps the hell out of you and forces you to fall and break your neck somehow... I don't think you can just exclude my take in the death. Just because you focus mainly on the higher being you worship doesn't mean you should just completely bump me off just because I was a factor in some big plan. Now what about me? What about the trauma I would have to go through because I accidentally caused your death? This doesn't mean I would just ACCEPT that it was supposed to happen by God's hand. This could cause more people to STOP worshipping an "unjust" God.

Now I have to suffer because of what happened and you're all just going to sit by and state how it was supposed to happen? This won't be so easily accepted by those who are part of the factor.
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  #60  
Old 16-10-2010, 09:37 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
"Umm, might I suggest a stepping back and a catching of the breath here? It might be just my perception but I sense the energies in this thread are a little off the charts. :-)" Serious issues raise deep emotions - we're only human.
My hat is off to you, Mac.

What you're saying then Rumar, is that you have a different definition of an accident? I always thought accidents happen by chance, unless you're in the health and safety side and they happen because of people's neglect. :-)

You're sitting there in SpiritLand just before you become incarnate, working out what's going to happen. "I feel like I want the experience of dropping some equipment on someone's head and killing them. That'll mean I can also experience what comes after - guilt, possibly the notion of suicide, etc. That'll give my family the opportunity to show me how much they Love me - or not. That should be interesting." Then someone else comes along and says "OK, you want that experience? I'll volunteer to be under that equipment when you drop it. I have to die anyway so we may as well kill two birds with one stone."

The 'accident' happens, the equipment gets dropped and off you go to SpiritLand again. The person that dropped it has their experience and his family show how much they Love him. In this case not much because he gets close to suicide.

I'm not going to bump you off (No real death threats intended lol) just because it's part of a big plan. Spiritually you're going to die anyway and you're helping me out by being under that equipment, I'm helping you out by sending you back to SpiritLand because it's your time to go. You might not accept that it happens by God's hand, but I dare say there are a lot of people that do - and it reinforces their beliefs for some.

It never/seldom is seriously accepted by anyone that is a part of that process, look around the boards and you'll see that. If I remember rightly, one of the questions that came up before the boards crashed was - "Would I choose to reincarnate into a Life that was so bad?" Umm, you already did, otherwise you wouldn't be here and experiencing what you are now. Just because it's not nice it doesn't mean you didn't choose it. It also cuts across posts on reincarnation where people are getting Past Life issues coming through. Perhaps in this Life I still get Past Life memories of dropping that kit on your head because as a human, I couldn't deal with those issues.

But then, those are just my beliefs.

Last edited by Greenslade : 16-10-2010 at 09:40 AM.
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