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  #61  
Old 30-08-2018, 02:53 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Continuing the discussion of Śūnyatā:

In Theravada Buddhism, suññatā often refers to the non-self (Pāli: anattā, Sanskrit: anātman) Suññatā is also often used to refer to a meditative state or experience.

In Mahayana, Sunyata refers to the tenet that "all things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature," (svabhava - realized as an experience) It also refers to the Buddha-nature teachings and primordial or empty awareness, as in Dzogchen and Shentong. In English, svabhava is directly translated as behavior, or what one is doing, how one is experiencing in this context. The state of being.

So the term "Śūnyatā" is really referring to the experience of "empty" or non-conceptual, or "non-mental" awareness. Being in the present moment unattached to, though aware of, ones mental activity.

"all phenomena are without self-essence"

You see one does not project the internal conditioned conceptual "mental world" (self-essence) onto phenomena. It's the non-verbal experience of now. By "verbal" I am referring to internal "roof brain" chatter - conceptual conditioned interpretation, not the use of language in our daily lives.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:53 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Originally Posted by Rain95
My guess would be the more enlightened you are, the more you lose interest in unconscious types of activities. Like say a bunch of drunk people sat down next to Buddha laughing and carrying on, Buddha would probably walk away. He was just into a different way of being. Could an enlightened master work as a bartender in a busy bar? Well they could, but would they choose to? If they did, they may be bringing light to their customers by their demeanor and presence.
Well - Castaneda was a fraud, Alan Watts was an alcoholic and so was Chogyam Trungpa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esD3vjj2ec0

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1172047/

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  #63  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:17 PM
sky sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Rain95
My guess would be the more enlightened you are, the more you lose interest in unconscious types of activities. Like say a bunch of drunk people sat down next to Buddha laughing and carrying on, Buddha would probably walk away. He was just into a different way of being. Could an enlightened master work as a bartender in a busy bar? Well they could, but would they choose to? If they did, they may be bringing light to their customers by their demeanor and presence.




" Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."
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  #64  
Old 14-01-2019, 04:49 PM
ImthatIm
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Sky123 quote:
Buddha would probably walk away.

Who is this walking Buddha?
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  #65  
Old 15-01-2019, 06:26 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Originally Posted by Rain95
My guess would be the more enlightened you are, the more you lose interest in unconscious types of activities. Like say a bunch of drunk people sat down next to Buddha laughing and carrying on, Buddha would probably walk away. He was just into a different way of being.
Reminds me of a meeting with ‘my first’ Oz-Aboriginal Elder.

Having just moved to Darwin that day – gone out and when returning back to the hostel at night – 3 Aboriginal fellows sat on the ground. Two of them were *_issed as bats*, - shouting obscenities to the (white) passers-by.
The third one was sober and called me over and started talking to me with such respect and with such a quiet voice (like we were in a Church).
My gran used to talk at times with that kind of a ‘hypnotic’ voice, so I just naturally relaxed and *shifted my awareness* into (what I call) nondual communion.

He was *holding space* for the 2 - just staying present with them without judgement, sharing/understanding their upset …… till they would ‘right themselves’ again - making sure they would come to no harm.

A Tiwi (Melville) Islander Elder, whom I was – what can I say – blessed to get to know well.

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  #66  
Old 15-01-2019, 06:59 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Reminds me of a meeting with ‘my first’ Oz-Aboriginal Elder.

Having just moved to Darwin that day – gone out and when returning back to the hostel at night – 3 Aboriginal fellows sat on the ground. Two of them were *_issed as bats*, - shouting obscenities to the (white) passers-by.
The third one was sober and called me over and started talking to me with such respect and with such a quiet voice (like we were in a Church).
My gran used to talk at times with that kind of a ‘hypnotic’ voice, so I just naturally relaxed and *shifted my awareness* into (what I call) nondual communion.

He was *holding space* for the 2 - just staying present with them without judgement, sharing/understanding their upset …… till they would ‘right themselves’ again - making sure they would come to no harm.

A Tiwi (Melville) Islander Elder, whom I was – what can I say – blessed to get to know well.

*




The first thing I wonder is, maybe all the cut and pastes on this thread are also common misunderstandings. The second thing I wonder is, could accepting the understanding of the cut and pastes as your own understanding on the basis if their authority lead you into misunderstanding? Indeed, could accepting another's understanding ever really be considered understanding?


Then I think about different aspects of understanding. The first would be having an insight in which you discover for yourself the way in which a teaching is true, meaning there is no understanding but for insight. The second aspect of understanding is like your quietly spoken Aboriginal friend, which is a deeper, subtler way of knowing that is much harder to describe.
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Last edited by Gem : 15-01-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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  #67  
Old 15-01-2019, 07:50 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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^ Not too sure how to respond to this Gem …. (?)

I remember reading a cryptic remark by Chogyam Trungpa, saying that: “Perhaps not knowing what Buddha is – is Buddha”.

Prior to moving to Darwin I didn’t know Oz-Aborigines from a bar of soap – let alone had any idea what their ‘Elder’ is.
But lucky me – landed on one the very first day under circumstances that were a teaching in itself.

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  #68  
Old 17-01-2019, 01:13 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Originally Posted by sentient
^ Not too sure how to respond to this Gem …. (?)

I remember reading a cryptic remark by Chogyam Trungpa, saying that: “Perhaps not knowing what Buddha is – is Buddha”.

Prior to moving to Darwin I didn’t know Oz-Aborigines from a bar of soap – let alone had any idea what their ‘Elder’ is.
But lucky me – landed on one the very first day under circumstances that were a teaching in itself.

*




So true. The Aboriginal people have a vast history and knowledge of their 'Country' which is terribly undervalued by recent colonisers.


I think people form ideas about what 'Buddha' is, but when I studied Buddhist meditation our teachers made it clear that Buddha is not a person - it's more the title we might give to an enlightened one - and the reality of the Buddha is the enlightenment within yourself.
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  #69  
Old 17-01-2019, 04:39 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
So true. The Aboriginal people have a vast history and knowledge of their 'Country' which is terribly undervalued by recent colonisers.

I think people form ideas about what 'Buddha' is, but when I studied Buddhist meditation our teachers made it clear that Buddha is not a person - it's more the title we might give to an enlightened one - and the reality of the Buddha is the enlightenment within yourself.
Yes that - and also just letting go of one’s preconceived ideas/concepts and notions of what “should be” & letting Reality show “What Is” instead.
“What is” thus being an open question as well as witnessing the unfoldment of the answer.

Trungpa I think associated it with “The sudden introduction of Nowness”.


(P.S. When leaving Melbourne - I had made a firm intent though to get to know Indigenous Australians …. So the ‘teaching’ started from the very first day in Darwin and with that I was hooked).

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  #70  
Old 25-01-2019, 03:55 PM
Gem Gem is online now
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Originally Posted by sentient
Yes that - and also just letting go of one’s preconceived ideas/concepts and notions of what “should be” & letting Reality show “What Is” instead.


That's pretty much the whole Buddhist religion right there teehee.


Quote:
“What is” thus being an open question as well as witnessing the unfoldment of the answer.


Trungpa I think associated it with “The sudden introduction of Nowness”.


(P.S. When leaving Melbourne - I had made a firm intent though to get to know Indigenous Australians …. So the ‘teaching’ started from the very first day in Darwin and with that I was hooked).

*




I haven't been in touch with the Aboriginal culture, either the modern urban side of it or the old outback side, but I took a few units in Indigenous Studies at Sydney University to at least learn a few things about all that.



I did a small research project when I worked in Social Services into how to provide Cultural Competency Training to non-aboriginal social workers, so I ran focus groups with Aboriginal Social Service workers to find out how to get that done. The research went to Family Services NSW to inform their policy on Social Services training for the Homelessness sector. I quickly found out that Aboriginal Services is different to how white fellas think, and I realised it was going to be impossible to communicate it to the non-Aboriginals at Family Services, and I realised, this is what the Aboriginals have been struggling to communicate all this time. Anyway, they had their say, and I basically transcribed the relevant parts word for word, so the research looked like a play rather than your typical document, and it was strangely heartfelt for policy research. It was a pretty amazing experience I'll never forget.


I did the same sort of study with other minority groups including the LGBT's and 'multicultural/refugee', but those two were straightforward cuz we knew that stuff already anyway, and done in the usual way - The Aboriginal one was another level. It was much more creative because it had to be done in an unusual way for it to make any sense.
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