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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #11  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:46 PM
Samana Samana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolite
All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Hi Toolite,

This is the Buddhist section of SF and I'm afraid Buddhists don't believe in a god.

with kind wishes to you,


Samana
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:53 PM
Chrysaetos Chrysaetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoughtBroadcaster
do people escape from karma based on how they view themselves? plus is their a righteous way to find out spiritually how people will pay the price for wrong doings like say "karma cam"?
Can I ask what it is that makes you think karma is real? Then it may be understood what you mean by it.

If people view themselves more positively, maybe their lives will be better because of that.
But this is common sense of course, and different from some non-material force that sticks to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana
Hi Toolite,
This is the Buddhist section of SF and I'm afraid Buddhists don't believe in a god.
with kind wishes to you,
Samana
You'd be surprised, because there are Buddhists who do believe in god(s). There are also Buddhists who meditate on deity statues. Since religions are part of cultures, there is no clear definition of ''Buddhist'' or ''Hindu''. They may or may not have a belief in god(s).
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:55 PM
Samana Samana is offline
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I have been an offline Buddhist for most of my life so I am well aware of Tibetan Buddhist 'deity' meditation which involves visualising oneself with the qualities of a meditational 'deity'. Its not meditation on a deity statue.

I suggest that you read this from a recommended Buddhist learning site which also has approved learning facilities for schools, Chrysaetos....


Quote:

Do Buddhist believe in god? by Ven S. Dammika

No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:
"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".
Dp 188


Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong.

To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration.

The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.
The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea "

Continued here:
http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm


Kind regards,

Samana
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:15 PM
Mata Das
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no and yes. escape from karma is grace of guru and g0d/dess and individual striving towards moksha in surrender. changing ones view of self or beliefs cannot change karmic reactions.
when one attains moksha one becomes guru. then one can see negative effects of a persons karma. but the negative effects do not occur because guru takes the effects upon himself and disolves them in his throat like lord shiv when he swallowed cosmic poison and held it in his throat.
~your servant,
Mata Das
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:19 PM
Chrysaetos Chrysaetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana
I have been an offline Buddhist for most of my life so I am well aware of Tibetan Buddhist 'deity' meditation which involves visualising oneself with the qualities of a meditational 'deity'. Its not meditation on a deity statue.
It's not just the Tibetans who do this. I have also read about Japanese Zen Buddhists who meditate on a deity.
And whether it's just a way to focus the mind, or sincere worship of a deity they believe in, I think that's up to the practitioner.. you can't say all Buddhists can't or don't believe in deities.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:41 PM
Samana Samana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysaetos
It's not just the Tibetans who do this. I have also read about Japanese Zen Buddhists who meditate on a deity.

I have never heard of Zen Buddhists meditating on a deity. I wonder if you are getting mixed up with Pure Land Buddhism?

Do you have any evidence to support your statements, Chrysaetos ? Some links to the information you've read would be helpful.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Lazarus72 Lazarus72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoughtBroadcaster
do people escape from karma based on how they view themselves? plus is their a righteous way to find out spiritually how people will pay the price for wrong doings like say "karma cam"?


The 4 unthinkables

acinteyya - ‘That which cannot or should not be thought, the unthinkable, incomprehensible, impenetrable, that which transcends the limits of thinking and over which therefore one should not ponder.*


These 4 unthinkables are:*
• the sphere of a Buddha (buddha-visaya),*
• of the meditative absorptions (jhana-visaya),*
of karma-result (kamma-vipaka), and*
• brooding over the world (loka-cinta), especially over an absolute first beginning of it
*

(s. A.IV.77).
"Therefore, o monks, do not brood over the world as to whether it is eternal or temporal, limited or endless ... Such brooding, O monks, is senseless, has nothing to do with genuine pure conduct (s. adibrahmacariyaka-sila), does not lead to aversion, detachment, extinction, nor to peace, to full comprehension, enlightenment and Nibbana, etc." (S.56.41).




I'd like to say hope this helps but truthfully that's about the only one I don't brood over.... much. I think it's fairly apparent if you intend negatively suffering will follow.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:45 PM
Chrysaetos Chrysaetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana
I have never heard of Zen Buddhists meditating on a deity. I wonder if you are getting mixed up with Pure Land Buddhism?

Do you have any evidence to support your statements, Chrysaetos ? Some links to the information you've read would be helpful.
Source: Taiko Yamasaki's Shingon: Japanese Esoteric Buddhism.

Not Zen, but does it make it any different if a Buddhist wants to worship or believe in a deity? I wasn't aware that Buddhists have to follow a strict atheism..
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2011, 11:32 PM
dhasatara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysaetos
I wasn't aware that Buddhists have to follow a strict atheism..

For what it is worth:-

Quote:
Buddhism and the God-idea (by Nyanaponika Thera)

Quite contradictory views have been expressed in Western literature on the attitude of Buddhism toward the concept of God and gods. From a study of the discourses of the Buddha preserved in the Pali canon, it will be seen that the idea of a personal deity, a creator god conceived to be eternal and omnipotent, is incompatible with the Buddha's teachings. On the other hand, conceptions of an impersonal godhead of any description, such as world-soul, etc., are excluded by the Buddha's teachings on Anatta, non-self or unsubstantiality.

In Buddhist literature, the belief in a creator god (issara-nimmana-vada) is frequently mentioned and rejected, along with other causes wrongly adduced to explain the origin of the world; as, for instance, world-soul, time, nature, etc. God-belief, however, is placed in the same category as those morally destructive wrong views which deny the kammic results of action, assume a fortuitous origin of man and nature, or teach absolute determinism. These views are said to be altogether pernicious, having definite bad results due to their effect on ethical conduct.

Theism, however, is regarded as a kind of kamma-teaching in so far as it upholds the moral efficacy of actions. Hence a theist who leads a moral life may, like anyone else doing so, expect a favorable rebirth. He may possibly even be reborn in a heavenly world that resembles his own conception of it, though it will not be of eternal duration as he may have expected. If, however, fanaticism induces him to persecute those who do not share his beliefs, this will have grave consequences for his future destiny. For fanatical attitudes, intolerance, and violence against others create unwholesome kamma leading to moral degeneration and to an unhappy rebirth. ....

From here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...a/godidea.html
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2011, 12:09 AM
Zeliar791
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus72
The 4 unthinkables

acinteyya - ‘That which cannot or should not be thought, the unthinkable, incomprehensible, impenetrable, that which transcends the limits of thinking and over which therefore one should not ponder.*


These 4 unthinkables are:*
• the sphere of a Buddha (buddha-visaya),*
• of the meditative absorptions (jhana-visaya),*
of karma-result (kamma-vipaka), and*
• brooding over the world (loka-cinta), especially over an absolute first beginning of it
*

(s. A.IV.77).
"Therefore, o monks, do not brood over the world as to whether it is eternal or temporal, limited or endless ... Such brooding, O monks, is senseless, has nothing to do with genuine pure conduct (s. adibrahmacariyaka-sila), does not lead to aversion, detachment, extinction, nor to peace, to full comprehension, enlightenment and Nibbana, etc." (S.56.41).




I'd like to say hope this helps but truthfully that's about the only one I don't brood over.... much. I think it's fairly apparent if you intend negatively suffering will follow.

It looks like I committed every unthinkable mentioned...
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