Origin and Conclusion of the Universe?

You - - Mr. Blair2Be - - have some great insights there. You really do. You have walked a bit on the Path. Consider this - - if we were "all" wrong - - then that would go against the entire principle of Life and of LIFE IT-self. One of the main principles of LIFE is a more full expression of itself (life) and a wider expansion of Truth. For all of us to be wrong - - would smack up against this one. I will readily admit - - an *individual* could, can, and probably does assume that all are wrong. And individual can do this as a foundational part of his / her viewpoint. But for ALL to be in this one would put it into an absolute - - all is this way and none are opposed - - and an absolute of Truth would not accept that all are wrong unto IT-self.

Yes - - each of us has various facets of truth within ourselves. Many people still wrestle with the concept of One. The actual initial principle of ONE centers around the basis that Reality is ONE. It is our individual realization of this Reality that makes for the differences within each of us. But still - - each of us holds a partial key to it all. Some more than others.

To say that "God would be pleased - - " just puts God in the category of holding human traits - - but supposedly more "impressively" so than we humans can put forth. It is my understanding and knowledge that God actually has little to do with human traits - - emotional / mental / physical - - or otherwise. But - - since all is a "part" of God - - (not meaning separation here) - - then there is a direct factor involved in all.

Yes - - anything is possible. And yes - - talking together bring differing viewpoints from which we can consider our own experiences. New twists here, new considerations there - - all help to bring a more clear picture to each of us. Some are more capable and acceptant of looking within and learning / growing. Others do all they can to staying exactly where they "are" at the moment.

"Conscious Shift" will come because everyone has been clamoring for it for a long time. It is just part of the entire concept of our bringing to ourselves what we focus on. Various facets of society has been promoting "intense changes" in one way or another for a LONG time. The greater changes will come to the individual - - and not to the group as a whole - - because the Path is an individual one. But no doubt - - there will be changes coming for the various countries and the overall planet. We have been working overtime to bring them about.

Once an individual has made any real strides in true spirituality - - s/he is greater than any "group" energy in this world. It is exceedingly rare for any group to be able to get together for any singular purpose and actually pull it off - - save for exercises in "power over" something or the control of something / someone else. Even Hollywood promotes this concept - - for they always send 2-3-4-5 "bad guys" against the one "good" guy because they know the individual with intense focus and ability can overcome the group - - unless the group simply outnumbers them in an unfair fight. Which - - is a pretty common practice used by the Negative Forces.

Being "brave," and "fearless," and wading thru our uncertainties is exactly what will help a person grow and overcome much in their life. But - - as you can see by what has gone on in just this specific thread - - the list of justifications and excuses NOT to do is MUCH longer than the reasons to face Self and push forward. That just seems to be the way it is. It's sad - - but that is the nature of the fear of knowing Self.

8-infinity-8 - - your "hypothetical" questions are not hypothetical. Your reactions show otherwise. Many times - - actions speak louder than words - - as the old saying goes.

Your list of reasons to avoid outnumber your reasons to simply look and learn. Greatly ! ! You fight harder to hold on to a limitation than to look at it and let go.

Enough is enough. You prove nothing to me. You prove only to yourself - - and to LIFE. The battle is always Self verses Yourself - - and your relationship to LIFE. The fact that I gave you a glimpse of yourself means nothing. The amount of resistance you put forth to even look - - is astounding.

And that - - is between you - - and LIFE.

Originally Posted by Glorymist

8-infinity-8 - - your "hypothetical" questions are not hypothetical. Your reactions show otherwise. Many times - - actions speak louder than words - - as the old saying goes.

Your list of reasons to avoid outnumber your reasons to simply look and learn. Greatly ! ! You fight harder to hold on to a limitation than to look at it and let go.

Enough is enough. You prove nothing to me. You prove only to yourself - - and to LIFE. The battle is always Self verses Yourself - - and your relationship to LIFE. The fact that I gave you a glimpse of yourself means nothing. The amount of resistance you put forth to even look - - is astounding.

And that - - is between you - - and LIFE.

Hi Glorymist,

With resistance comes awakening, everything has it's place.
If the higher self of mine chooses to resist, then I shall trust in my higher self for it knows more than my finite mind.
Sometimes, it is best to just flow & let it be so, that in which you resist, becomes more obvious to learn from.
This very discussion maybe a lesson for me, who knows, but if it doesnt grab my attention then i do not need it.
I believe that every decision I make is made from my higher intention & that may be wrong to you, but it isn't to me.

You must respect others beliefs as you would expect them to respect yours.
No one is right & no-one is wrong.
I have contemplated your opinions & find there is a lot of sense to what you believe, & I respect that you have beliefs that work for you & bring you peace, as the majority do not, but; you do not know better than me & I do not know better than you, we are equal, your opinion is simply your opinion, & even that statement is just an opinion.

Wars are started on the rejection of other peoples beliefs, only God knows.
To admit you may be wrong about all of your beliefs, can be liberating.
To believe you know is limitation in itself, everything is a possiblility, that is unlimited.

Blessings.

I think the key factor here to everyones beliefs is that there is a god/force/being who we all feel a part of and as correctly stated we should respect everyones beliefs in regards to that.



you see what ever happens on our pathway to this god/force/being it is what we have chosen to do it is the pathway we have chosen to walk to get back to the one the whole. if you decide and believe that you can strap a device to yourself and set it off to harm and kill people because they dont follow your beliefs and you think it will give /earn you a place in heaven next to your god then that is your choice. god and every part of god will be saddened by this act but he/the whole will not judge you on it that is for you to decide, you judge your own actions so although it amazes me how people can do this to each other i respect their beliefs and thank god that i am at the stage where i could never ever harm another living thing because in doing so i would only harm myself and the whole...God...god bless you all...

Originally Posted by kundalini

Yes okay but with this line of thinking it seems we are all entering a spiritual cul-de-sac so to speak. I think people should ACCEPT that they could be wrong but if one continues with this thinking, then only stagnation would occur.

With that way of thinking, how can motivation be born or inspiration inspire?

Is it possible that we are all one mind and if that is the case, then some parts of us are not thinking correctly while other parts are? Maybe a goal to aspire to, is to listen to certain parts of us and to 'correct' other parts of us. That would fit in with the theme of 'collective consciousness', would it not?

Either way, declaring that we are all wrong is fearful thinking at it's worst. It is not borne of love, it is based on fear. Think about that. Now, is what I am saying right, or is it wrong? Remember though, I only ask to see if you have this level of comprehension. I already know what I believe.

Hi kundalini,
You make a good point my friend but I'm not sure that's what the point was.
I think the main point of "everyone being wrong" was that, it is a possibility that everyone is wrong, I dont think any one declared it to be fact, or maybe I'm wrong on that one too, iuno

In my opinion, true "un-limitation" is acknowledging that anything is possible, & then you can not possibly be attached to defending your beliefs when they are challenged or when they turn out to be false.

I'm not sure i agree about correcting others though, to correct someone means to me, that you "know better" & in my opinion I don't think that anyone "knows" better than anyone else. Only those who want to learn can learn, No one knows how to live your life better than you, essentially.

To correct & force an opinion on another, is to attach yourself to the outcome of your advice which is another way to make Mr. ego even more superior to "others", & when they don't take your advice, ego says angrily : "how dare they refuse my advice, my advice is special, & everyone should be like me" & "why does'nt everyone think like me?" & "If only everyone realized how clever I was then they would be like me & I wouldnt have to put up with these dumb people etc.." or something along those lines, we're all guilty of it at some stage I assume, but it's pretty funny i recon .
And when this happens, you make the person you're trying to "help" even more confused than they were to begin with, because all you're trying to do is make them see how wise you are, lol. Thats in my experience anyways.
I think the less attached you are to someone elses spiritual development the better it is for both party's.

Blessings

Originally Posted by 8-infinite-8

Hi kundalini,
You make a good point my friend but I'm not sure that's what the point was.
I think the main point of "everyone being wrong" was that, it is a possibility that everyone is wrong, I dont think any one declared it to be fact, or maybe I'm wrong on that one too, iuno

In my opinion, true "un-limitation" is acknowledging that anything is possible, & then you can not possibly be attached to defending your beliefs when they are challenged or when they turn out to be false.

I'm not sure i agree about correcting others though, to correct someone means to me, that you "know better" & in my opinion I don't think that anyone "knows" better than anyone else. Only those who want to learn can learn, No one knows how to live your life better than you, essentially.

To correct & force an opinion on another, is to attach yourself to the outcome of your advice which is another way to make Mr. ego even more superior to "others", & when they don't take your advice, ego says angrily : "how dare they refuse my advice, my advice is special, & everyone should be like me" & "why does'nt everyone think like me?" & "If only everyone realized how clever I was then they would be like me & I wouldnt have to put up with these dumb people etc.." or something along those lines, we're all guilty of it at some stage I assume, but it's pretty funny i recon .
And when this happens, you make the person you're trying to "help" even more confused than they were to begin with, because all you're trying to do is make them see how wise you are, lol. Thats in my experience anyways.
I think the less attached you are to someone elses spiritual development the better it is for both party's.

Blessings

I see what you are saying. You are right and yet I used the wrong word when I said 'correct'. I am searching for a word that I do not yet know in relation to all this. However, I was not trying to prove how 'wise' I am. That would be a futile exercise whichever way I look at it. I have always believed that there is a difference between being 'wise' and actually applying that word to one's life.

Besides, 'wise' is a relative word. The real problem with the discussion in this thread is that evryone has become so defensive towards each other and now this stagnation is occuring where we are all only 'correcting' each other.

You are guilty of this 8-infinite-8 in your last post towards me and Glorymist as I am guilty of it right now. The thing is, it appears to me that discussions being held in this way are unavoidable and so the only way to stop being defensive is to focus on WHAT each of us are saying rather than on WHY we are saying it.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

8-infinity-8 - - as I said before - - your list of reasons NOT to far outweigh your courage to take a close look. You have all necessary rhetoric in place. You still try to make this an issue between you and I. I would bet you still could not simply state what the initial issue is / was.

It IS your "finite" mind that is guiding you on this one. It is the one that says - - "Don't look. I like it this way."

I will save you the trouble of determining the initial issue. It astounds me - - that one who is quite obviously well along the Path - - actually *fights* to maintain the "right" to throw false accusations around. You even alluded to how "odd" that would be of me to do to you in a later reply. And it was your initial, blatant drawing of a false assumption and accusation that led to all of this. And you defend your right to do so. That - - is astounding.

I respect all of Life as Soul - - and the Soul of others. I do not have to respect the behavior patterns of dishonesty, ingenuity, and blind fear - - coupled with faddish rhetoric to allow for escape.

You make it all worse by being proud of your reluctance to look, and finding new ways / statements to justify your decision.

Hi kundalini, Hi Glory mist

You are completely correct kundalini, I did take what you have said out of context & the part where i was talking about forcing an opinion, wasn't directed at anyone, it was simply an observation that most can probably relate to, no implication was intended.

I think that's the main issue is that everything we say is subject to be taken out of context, wich I'm guilty of doing I admit.
I do not agree though that ,you Glory mist incist on saying things to me such as, I lack courage, I'm reluctant to learn, I'm un-intelligent, ignorent, dishonest, ingenuine, and blind with fear. I think they are serious false assumptions going by the fact we have never met, do you think Im gonna want to learn from these things you suggest with that attitude & condascension attached to them ?
And if i have said things of that nature (& I say this honestly) Please , suggest it to me, because I'm unaware if I have, simply suggest, if you feel the need to let me know, that is.

I believe I have a "finite" mind & an "infinite" mind & both are apart of the same "oneness". That to me, is the human experience. No "one" is better.
Both have there place equally in god's plans.
Without darkness can there be no light.

Blessings

8-infinite-8 - - All I have said has been based on these direct interactions. They clearly indicate your reluctance, etc. No one needs to meet face to face to see how people react to issues. Expressed words showing patterns, principles, and beliefs work just fine.

There is a saying in either Jonathan Livingstone Seagull or Illusions - - I forget which one - - that says - - argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours.

You keep on trying to put this battle between you and I. That is *not* the battle here. I "suggested" what it was all about - - way back when. I even told you just in the last entry that I bet you didn't even know what this was all about because you have been too busy shoring up the walls. You spent all this time arguing for your right to not even look. Now you ask - - "suggest what I said - - ." Again - - you prove me right. In the beginning - - the issue was soooo simple ! ! Now - - you have shown the depth of yourself - - not to me - - but to Life.

But - - enough ! ! Your ego has won this battle. Be proud ! ! I've had enough. I shall gladly release you to yourself.

Hi Glorymist and 8-infinite-8,

I feel obliged to interrupt here. As I have said in a previous post, I find that discussions such as these are bound to devolve into arguments if we all keep focusing on WHY we are saying certain things. I am not talking about any insults thrown about, I am talking about the original purpose of the thread and what has happened here is simply miscommunication and too much focus on WHY we are all saying things.

I honestly believe that if we begin to focus on WHAT we are all saying, then this thread has a chance to 'stick' to it's original purpose, which was the origin and conclusion of life.

Also, I have been guilty in this thread in cetain posts, of also focusing on WHY people are saying this and that. I am now more interested in WHAT people are saying as I have realised that focusing on WHY is becoming detrimental to the discussion in this thread.

Kundalini.