The Buddhist version of happiness does not exist

[MattMVS7]

Note to Reader: I have every reason to think that the Buddhist version of happiness does not exist and that it is only our good feelings (good moods) that give our lives real happiness. I not only give an explanation as to why below, but I also present a person's response and my reply to it to illustrate my point. That response and reply is also very important for you to read as well.

If the supernatural is real and we really are spiritual beings (souls), then, for me, every aspect of my human experience is no different than any other experience such as smell, taste, sight, hearing, etc.

These are what I would call the "mechanical" experiences since they are nothing more than mere sensations. Even my own attitude, strength of character, personality, and outlook on life would fall under this category. However, my feelings (moods) are a completely different story. They are the higher spiritual component to my existence. If I were to witness some horrific image or event and I did not experience any horrible feelings from that, then that image or event would have no power (impact) whatsoever upon me.

But if I could feel horrible feelings from it, then it would be like I am getting the horrible spiritual energy from that image or event. As you can see here, everything in life without our feelings (moods) are all nothing more than dead, lifeless, and mechanical experiences for us since they are things devoid of the higher spiritual component which would be our feelings. That would even include the value, worth, joy, happiness, beauty, suffering, and misery we have in our lives without our feelings. In other words, they would not be real things without our feelings.

It is only our good (pleasant) feelings that breathe the higher spiritual component of real good value, real joy, real worth, real paradise, and real beauty into our lives while it is only our bad (unpleasant) feelings that breathe the higher spiritual component of real bad value, real suffering, real misery, real hell, and real tragedy into our lives. Lastly, in the event that the soul and paranormal are not real as most materialistic skeptics would say, then our feelings wouldn't be the higher spiritual component to our human experience and to our existence.

Rather, they would simply be the higher component to our human experience and to our existence. Again, without this higher component, then we would all be nothing more than mere things that breathe, swallow, blink, see, hear, smell, etc. Our personalities, outlooks, strength/bravery of character, and attitudes are not our higher component as most people would claim. It is instead our feelings which are the higher component. It is only through our good feelings that our personalities, attitudes, lives, moments, etc. become something more than just "mechanical" attributes for us.

Other Person's Response: Why should there be more to life than happiness and the absence of suffering? Buddhism is pretty much built on achieving that so well done if you managed it.

My Reply: It's the type of happiness I am talking about here. I am talking about good feelings (good moods). I am not talking about any other form of happiness (a non feel-good version) that is claimed by the Buddhists or anyone else since such happiness is not real to me. When I struggle with misery and depression in my life due to some traumatic event, then there is no way I can be happy since I am in a state of misery and despair. To say that I can be happy while in that state makes no sense. I cannot both be in a state of misery and in a state of happiness at the same time.

It is only during moments where I can feel good that I can have moments of happiness. But I cannot feel good while in a state of misery, depression, despair, or anhedonia. Neither is there any such thing as a non feel-bad version of suffering and misery. Those things have to be bad feelings. I cannot be in a state of misery and suffering as long as I am experiencing my good feelings and neither can I experience suffering and misery without my feelings of misery, despair, anguish, etc. Just as how I've never experienced a form of happiness without my good feelings, I have never experienced pain, suffering, and misery without my bad feelings.

[Ground]

Buddhism isn't about achieving happiness. It is about cessation of dukkha (stress) only.

Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....086.than.html

Take life as it is and merely remove one phenomenon of experience: dukkha (stress). Dukkha (stress) is removed but not replaced by happiness. Experiences of happiness are already part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) still is present and will remain part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) is removed. Experiences of physical pain are already part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) still is present and will remain part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) is removed. Experiences of illness are already part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) still is present and will remain part of life as it is when dukkha (stress) is removed.
However when dukkha (stress) is removed the quality of all experiences changes.

Also Buddhism isn't about a supernatural. It is about life/being and experiences.

[eputkonen]

"When I struggle with misery and depression in my life due to some traumatic event, then there is no way I can be happy since I am in a state of misery and despair. To say that I can be happy while in that state makes no sense. I cannot both be in a state of misery and in a state of happiness at the same time."

Of course not. But understanding can change so that "some traumatic event"...is just an event with no trauma.

"I have never experienced pain, suffering, and misery without my bad feelings."

Of course not...but suffering and misery are self-created. They are mental fictions and you may find that if you see through the illusions of the mind, you suffer far less or may not suffer anymore.

Pain will continue to exist. But Buddhists don't add to it...like the old saying - don't look or it will hurt more. It will never hurt more than absolutely necessary by the nerves of the body.

You simply do not understand the Buddhist version of happiness or living without suffering. It is not a part of your experience. So for you to say it does not exist is like saying ostriches don't exist because you have never seen one.

Buddhist happiness involves feeling good far more of the time because you are not making yourself miserable/suffer.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

"When I struggle with misery and depression in my life due to some traumatic event, then there is no way I can be happy since I am in a state of misery and despair. To say that I can be happy while in that state makes no sense. I cannot both be in a state of misery and in a state of happiness at the same time."

Of course not. But understanding can change so that "some traumatic event"...is just an event with no trauma.

"I have never experienced pain, suffering, and misery without my bad feelings."

Of course not...but suffering and misery are self-created. They are mental fictions and you may find that if you see through the illusions of the mind, you suffer far less or may not suffer anymore.

Pain will continue to exist. But Buddhists don't add to it...like the old saying - don't look or it will hurt more. It will never hurt more than absolutely necessary by the nerves of the body.

You simply do not understand the Buddhist version of happiness or living without suffering. It is not a part of your experience. So for you to say it does not exist is like saying ostriches don't exist because you have never seen one.

Buddhist happiness involves feeling good far more of the time because you are not making yourself miserable/suffer.

What I am saying is that it is not the cessation of suffering/misery which is happiness as I can gather from what your last statement is implying. Rather, it is only our good feelings (good moods) that give our lives happiness. I also don't understand what you mean when you say that happiness is not a part of our experience. Experience is everything to life. Without it, then we would either be literally biological machines, dead, or unconscious.

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

What I am saying is that it is not the cessation of suffering/misery which is happiness as I can gather from what your last statement is implying. Rather, it is only our good feelings (good moods) that give our lives happiness. I also don't understand what you mean when you say that happiness is not a part of our experience. Experience is everything to life. Without it, then we would either be literally biological machines, dead, or unconscious.

It is not the cessation of suffering which is happiness...your very nature is happiness...so when you cease suffering you will find yourself feeling good. Your good feelings would be constant...with the single exception of physical pain. You push away good feelings for bad feelings (suffering and misery) because of mental fictions.

"I also don't understand what you mean when you say that happiness is not a part of our experience."

I never said that...and I don't know how you got this from anything I said.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

It is not the cessation of suffering which is happiness...your very nature is happiness...so when you cease suffering you will find yourself feeling good. Your good feelings would be constant...with the single exception of physical pain. You push away good feelings for bad feelings (suffering and misery) because of mental fictions.

"I also don't understand what you mean when you say that happiness is not a part of our experience."

I never said that...and I don't know how you got this from anything I said.

I don't think it works like that. I think feeling good is a chemical response in the brain as explained by neuroscience. There are people who cannot feel good no matter what while they are in a state of anhedonia/depression. This is a brain issue and has nothing to do with what you said.

[jonesboy]

Keep digging and you will find the joy within you.

Bliss, happiness is what we are if you dig deep enough.

You are proclaiming things make me happy so go after things.

That is the suffering all the spiritual traditions warn about.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Keep digging and you will find the joy within you.

Bliss, happiness is what we are if you dig deep enough.

You are proclaiming things make me happy so go after things.

That is the suffering all the spiritual traditions warn about.

Read my previous post I just made since it explains that feeling good is a chemical response which some depressed/anhedonic people really don't have and can't have.

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I don't think it works like that. I think feeling good is a chemical response in the brain as explained by neuroscience. There are people who cannot feel good no matter what while they are in a state of anhedonia/depression. This is a brain issue and has nothing to do with what you said.

Good luck with that.

As for me, my fairly constant experience is happiness (feeling good). The levels of "feeling good" varies throughout the day...from enjoyment to bliss. A little pain doesn't even dampen it (I recently injured my thumb). Losing my job and being unemployed for nearly 2 years did not dampen it.

If it was just a chemical response, what would be different for me that minor injury or even losing my job doesn't make me feel bad?

Would you claim I have a special brain? I don't...I just saw through many of the illusions of the mind and I stopped making myself miserable.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Read my previous post I just made since it explains that feeling good is a chemical response which some depressed/anhedonic people really don't have and can't have.

Sure they can..

Also what is it that depressed people are caught up in most often?

Beyond the chemicals has science found where awareness is?