Mindfulness

[jonesboy]

I tend to combine those steps with these teachings on how to work with emotions.

http://community.livingunbound.net/i.../#comment-3445

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Mindfulness is still objects, your are observing your thoughts.

If you are observing a thing you are not that thing.

For instance, if you are observing thoughts that is a step outside of them.

Dzogchen teaches you that thoughts are energy, not to be outside of them but one of the stages of Shine is to be in the movement of the thought.. Be in the energy of the thought, not observing it.. beond being in the energy is being the energy itself.

Mindfulness is far from realizing the Ground of Being or enlightenment.. but it is a step along the path of being present. A very powerful one but still a step.

How do you know that mindfulness is far from realizing the ground of being or enlightenment ?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

How do you know that mindfulness is far from realizing the ground of being or enlightenment ?

Well for one because I first experienced what people call The Witness years ago in daily life and have moved beyond it.

I know there is more which is why I keep saying if you are observing a thing you are still in duality. Yes, observing thoughts is dualistic... it mov s beyond that.

I have shared the stages I have went through with you many times in different threads.

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by sky123

How do you know that mindfulness is far from realizing the ground of being or enlightenment ?

As I understand or apply that word "mindfulness" to my own life and my own experience, I don't really see a difference between a lot of these pointings using different words and concepts. I understand there is perhaps a purpose for all of these specific concepts in religion or philosophy and individuals use them in their own lives in their own way for their own purposes but I'm not really attached to them.

To me, they are all pointing to the same state of consciousness. But I will say I am aware, like others have said, growth is unlimited. Or maybe better said, what one can become aware of and then experience is unlimited. But that doesn't mean we have to attach words or concepts to these ideas or realizations. But then philosophy is a fun past time or interest for many so they like to think and ponder about things like this.

Also, it seems to me a lot of these words are just zeroing in on different aspects of the same thing or qualities of it. It's basically coloring the same picture in our own ways, out of our individual conditioning probably. Like if I am very aware and detached from my mind and thought, I can describe that experience in a myriad of ways. Like I can say it's silence or light or my heart opening, or kundalini or god or the divine or anything really. I've noticed people who are "selling" this information tend to use as much flowery language as possible to describe it to make it something with a wide appeal to others.

I would say mindfulness is a word that represents being awake or highly aware in such a way I am not in the conceptual. Ground of being to me is just stating this "awake" state is our natural state. It is our starting point or ground. Where we are just covered up by all of this other stuff. All this other "doing" obscures it. Enlightenment is a word that usually means some very advanced person who is always awake. See most people gets tastes of it at first and so we go back and forth from normal consciousness to higher states and it takes time for it to become more of a moment to moment daily part of our lives.

You start out having brief seeing moments and still spend the majority of your time in "ego" consciousness but eventually get to the opposite point where you are awake most of the time and have brief moments in ego. That can take years or lifetimes. Enlightenment to me seems to be describing a person at the end of that process. They are always awake. But then people use that word in different ways. Like I can be in ego 99% of my time and 1% of the time see clearly and state I am "enlightened" because I know the difference between these two states at least intellectually and not in actualization because in me it is not fully formed as moment to moment awareness. So language is for us to use anyway we want and we all use it in different ways.

To me, being awake is it. Nothing more to "do." Doing is ego anyway as our "ground of being" is not after anything other than manifesting what it is. Awake awareness that is unattached to what it is not.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Well for one because I first experienced what people call The Witness years ago in daily life and have moved beyond it.

I know there is more which is why I keep saying if you are observing a thing you are still in duality. Yes, observing thoughts is dualistic... it mov s beyond that.

I have shared the stages I have went through with you many times in different threads.

Yes observing thoughts is dualistic so it's best to be the observer who observes the observer ego, problem solved

[Bohdiyana]

I assume mindfulness to a lot of people is something ego does to experience something, just like meditation is. Forms of ego relaxing. Learning to calm the mind and thoughts down. But mindfulness and meditation can also be about experiencing no mind or total detachment from mind or ego. So people use and apply these words in different ways. So yea I would say mindfulness or meditation is not the end of the road for a lot of people, but then that is because of how they are applying the word as a practice or experience. For others, who wake up fully, mindfulness or meditation is the end of the road. It all depends on what these words mean for that person. How they are understood or applied.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes observing thoughts is dualistic so it's best to be the observer who observes the observer ego, problem solved

That is still dualistic.

Be all of it, not observe it... observing is a step to being.

[Bohdiyana]

Observing thoughts can be dualistic or it can be non-dualistic. It depends on what the observer is. One can observe with the ego or without ego. One can observe conceptually or non-conceptionally. To observe is just another way to say to be aware. It's what you are observing with or "as" that determines if it is dualism or not.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

I assume mindfulness to a lot of people is something ego does to experience something, just like meditation is. Forms of ego relaxing. Learning to calm the mind and thoughts down. But mindfulness and meditation can also be about experiencing no mind or total detachment from mind or ego. So people use and apply these words in different ways. So yea I would say mindfulness or meditation is not the end of the road for a lot of people, but then that is because of how they are applying the word as a practice or experience. For others, who wake up fully, mindfulness or meditation is the end of the road. It all depends on what these words mean for that person. How they are understood or applied.

That is why it is good to study and learn what the accepted meaning of the various words means.

They each mean a very specific thing for a reason.. If we all make up our own meaning to a word instead of what has been accepted for thousands of years as the meaning.. we will just be talking over each other.

That is why I use, Buddhist or Hindu terms to convey a specific meaning so that we are clear on what we are talking about.

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If we all make up our own meaning to a word ...

I don't think there is any way to prevent that. It's like a kid named Joe bullys Mike and is nice to Lucy. Lucy says Joe is great and Mike says Joe is horrible. We judge things based on our experience with them. Our experience and conditioning determines what we think things are. Some person who reads about meditation and uses it to take a quiet time out from their busy lives, to just relax, believes that is what meditation is. That is what it is to them. Buddha meditated under the bodhi tree and became fully realized. Meditation to Buddha that day was not just trying to relax. Meditation can be a different thing to a monk than to a worldly pop star.

Mindfulness is now a main stream thing like meditation is, understood and practiced in a million different ways. I was watching the news the other day and they had a little segment on how mindfulness can make you have less bad stress in your life. They explained it as just watching your breath and thoughts and they showed some footage of people doing yoga in tights. Then they went to sports.