Trouble with silencing my mind while meditating...

Originally Posted by Gem

In the school of meditation I'm familiar with there aren't 'guru figures' as such because the Buddha taught people to be discerning, and instead of believing what any teacher might tell them, they must see for themselves what is true. Because of this, meditation teachers in the sangha don't dispense facts, but rather, teach the meditation which can be helpful to people in overcoming their illusions and seeing for themselves what is true. The problem with introducing a 'channeled being' is that people take that to be a 'special spiritual thing', and as such, start to blindly believe that voice and become influenced by something other than their own insight. What is encouraged in the meditation schools is a practice which stablises ones mind so that the person can see more clearly, and understand what is true through their direct encounter. It is a healing process which instills in a person the equanimity or pure awareness, and by resolving stuck or blocked mentality, emotion and their physical manifestations, the human being as a life form better channels the infinite purity of love that arises from the very essence of their being.

This is the reason I use the disclaimer which appears at the beginning of one of my recent posts. I believe that we need no guru figures beyond that of our own soul or guide who is always waiting for our recognition.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Gem... I, James, not Bartholomew, made a mistake in this post. I did not mean to say that both meditation and channeling for long periods will sometimes bring headaches. Meditation will not. Channeling will. I sometimes write long and involved statements. These are mostly channeled directly but not always. I have to be very careful to proof whenever I write regardless, because I am human, I sometimes fail at this.

Those of us who are conscious channels know full well that care must always be taken to preserve the integrity of the connection.

Friend bartholomew

You have already exerted much time and effort to share your knowledge and we are very grateful for that. Please do not worry - this is a spiritual forum to share and discuss ideas, learnings and spiritual insights. It is ever so much more valuable when it is true.

I thank you for all that you have shared in your caring. And for your time and effort. Please take care of yourself, too, my friend.

Blessings.

shiningstars

[Ground]

Originally Posted by sky123

Sometimes people post things regarding meditation that can deter others from trying it which is irresponsible, ...

responsible or irresponsible ... who decides?
Why not call it 'irresponsible' to pretend that there can be attainment of any permanent change by means of meditation?
On the other hand who would call it 'irresponsible' to advocate temporary vacation? From the common perspective of ordinary mind vacation may be a nice recreating experience although only transient and so is meditation.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by markings

As to you not using 'long winded', post 41

I do not show annoyance at quotations.
I show annoyance at excessive, unthinking, lazy quoting.
There is absolutely no excuse to quote 50+ lines only to add "Me too", or similar.
Simply trim them down to the essence.

As a paraphrase it seems.

"I show annoyance at"

Indeed - a good reflection for those who equate some ideas of martial art concentration as spiritual freeing concentration.

shiningstars

[markings]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

As a paraphrase it seems.

"I show annoyance at"

Indeed - a good reflection for those who equate some ideas of martial art concentration as spiritual freeing concentration.

shiningstars

Most of your responses to me are just ad hominen attacks.
I will stop responding to your posts which do not address the issues raised.

[sky]

Originally Posted by markings

Most of your responses to me are just ad hominen attacks.
I will stop responding to your posts which do not address the issues raised.

I agree with you markings regarding martial arts and spirituality, they go together perfectly.

If you look at the Shaolin Monks and also Zen Buddhism you can see the connection.

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by Ground

responsible or irresponsible ... who decides?
Why not call it 'irresponsible' to pretend that there can be attainment of any permanent change by means of meditation?
On the other hand who would call it 'irresponsible' to advocate temporary vacation? From the common perspective of ordinary mind vacation may be a nice recreating experience although only transient and so is meditation.

Hi Ground,
I am sorry but with respect to you I have to disagree!
Meditation trains the mind. It is not a temporary 'high' or 'vacation' of any kind but can -if done repeatedly and sensitively -attune the thought processes and emotional responses to a finer frequency. This state is absorbed just as any other discipline or 'training' is.
If the average base frequency of a person is refined/re-tuned/uncluttered even one slight tiny bit, then there has been a permanent alteration. Because perspective has been shifted. Once perspective is shifted it is still possible to envisage what went before (and often is useful for empathic reasons) but the base level of that person is changed.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Hi Ground,
I am sorry but with respect to you I have to disagree!

I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by Tobi

Meditation trains the mind. It is not a temporary 'high' or 'vacation' of any kind but can -if done repeatedly and sensitively -attune the thought processes and emotional responses to a finer frequency. This state is absorbed just as any other discipline or 'training' is.

This is an illusion that arises when someone is meditating regularly, i.e. before the effect of one meditation session has totally vanished the next meditation session takes place. Just stop meditation completely and you will find out that gradually all alleged changes will fade away. There is no permanent change at all.
Also often when people start meditating they do change their lifestyle and their system of beliefs so the life setting of concious perceptions and experiences changes. In those cases it is impossible to assert that it would be meditation that changes something because the change of concious experience may arise merely through change of lifestyle and beliefs.

Originally Posted by Tobi

If the average base frequency of a person is refined/re-tuned/uncluttered ...

Provided that one believes that there is such a 'frequency'.

Really everyone may verify: stop meditating completely and you will find out that meditation does not cause permanent changes. But of course it is again a matter of belief, i.e. a matter of belief in meditation and the alleged role meditation plays in one's belief system why one may be reluctant to face the fact that meditation just causes transient experiences. But as stated above: there is nothing to say against vacation. Vacation is good.

And techniques to calm down are helpful beyond that because one should be able to concentrate when executing a task and with a 'monkey mind' one will not be able to succeed in anything.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Hi Ground,
I am sorry but with respect to you I have to disagree!
Meditation trains the mind. It is not a temporary 'high' or 'vacation' of any kind but can -if done repeatedly and sensitively -attune the thought processes and emotional responses to a finer frequency. This state is absorbed just as any other discipline or 'training' is.
If the average base frequency of a person is refined/re-tuned/uncluttered even one slight tiny bit, then there has been a permanent alteration. Because perspective has been shifted. Once perspective is shifted it is still possible to envisage what went before (and often is useful for empathic reasons) but the base level of that person is changed.

The basic premise of 'observation' is the way to become conscious, and 'the transformation' occurs as one realises, or has insight, and this is primarily a 'purification' or a healing - a way of releasing or undoing - so the way you describe 'alteration' and 'uncluttered' is similar to the terms I describe it, but I don't describe the transformation as permanent even though these insights are irrevocable. Although it is true that one can not 'revert' back to where they were since they became conscious of that stuckness, the transformation is the movement of ones life - some say several lifetimes - but the meditation is the observation - rather than 'an observer' and the movements of one's life that are observed.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by Ground

There is no permanent change at all.

Depends on the stage of progress, and practice. For adepts, of course the change is "permanent".

shiningstars