Is the pre-birth soul/life plan real?

[Dargor]

A pre-birth plan doesn't sound rational to me. I can't imagine some people living a lifetime of suffering either physically, mentally, and in loneliness because of their own choice before birth. What is there to learn from it? Honestly, that'd be as pointless as trying to rehabilitate a prisoner through solitary confinement… They end up much worse than before. That being said, I don't even think we are here to learn at all. Learn what exactly…? As for why some people receive blessings and healings while others don't, it's simply because life isn't fair. God doesn't exist.

[Spiritual_Light]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

A pre-birth plan doesn't sound rational to me. I can't imagine some people living a lifetime of suffering either physically, mentally, and in loneliness because of their own choice before birth. What is there to learn from it? Honestly, that'd be as pointless as trying to rehabilitate a prisoner through solitary confinement… They end up much worse than before. That being said, I don't even think we are here to learn at all. Learn what exactly…? As for why some people receive blessings and healings while others don't, it's simply because life isn't fair. God doesn't exist.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree.

Without this being turned into a thread about proving God's existence, I agree with some your points above about the pre-birth plan, but my opinion is that if there is one, I don't think we can comprehend it, hence why so many learn more in a NDE etc.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree.

Without this being turned into a thread about proving God's existence, I agree with some your points above about the pre-birth plan, but my opinion is that if there is one, I don't think we can comprehend it, hence why so many learn more in a NDE etc.

In one NDE he represents himself as the wrathful god of Christianity who sends people to hell forever if they don't repent and/or live up to his expectations, but in another NDE God represents himself as the typical non-judgmental light being who accepts and loves anyone. So which one is the truth?? I've read a lot of NDEs, but so many of them are different from each other.

I just try to navigate the now and staying open to it.
So many choices to be made in the day.
But it does seem to me that there is free will here and we get guidance.
So is it ultimately pre-planned destination with detours.
I think I come from One source and return to One source and that's all that matters.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't say there can't be a Grand Plan. I'm saying it seems unlikely because what we have as explanation already works..
Why assume there is more to it..?

It comes down to our belief systems. The belief that there is no plan and it is all random is one explanation. The belief that there is an unfolding Grand Plan which seeks expression in Creation is another explanation. You think the former is more likely. I think the second is more likely. Neither of us can prove that our beliefs are true.

Originally Posted by Altair

So let us explore.
What do you think happened between the souls of yersinia pestis and those of 14th century people..?

Perhaps the bubonic plague was nothing to do with soul agreements between yersinia pestis and human beings. Usually when people talk about soul agreements they mean the individualised souls of human beings, planning the events of a particular incarnation.

Much depends on our ideas of karma (assuming that karma is a fact). So any soul plan for an incarnation has to include karmic factors, such as family environment and circumstances, the people who will play a significant part in our lives, and our previous levels of attainment.

But as well as individual karma there is also national karma, racial karma and the karma of humanity as a whole. The individual has little control over these greater karmic events. Bubonic plague would be an example of a greater karmic event, although we do not know why this might happen. Millions of individuals are affected, and this is simply yersinia pestis doing what it does. And yet the results are unpredictable - one person dies while the next person lives. Maybe this is individual karma playing out within the greater karmic circumstances.

Originally Posted by Altair

And did dinosaurs die out cause they've been bad guys..? If it's karma, desire and attachment than what did these animals do..?

Or maybe it is nothing to do with desire or attachment. Perhaps the time of the dinosaurs had served its purpose, whatever that purpose might have been.

As I said, it is all belief systems which neither of us can prove.

Peace.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by iamthat

It comes down to our belief systems. The belief that there is no plan and it is all random is one explanation. The belief that there is an unfolding Grand Plan which seeks expression in Creation is another explanation. You think the former is more likely. I think the second is more likely. Neither of us can prove that our beliefs are true.

Not quite. You make assumptions and use spiritual explanations, which means you're the one adding belief systems into this. I have not done this so far concerning these examples..

If a car hits a tree...

Person A: That car hit a tree (observation).
Person B: Yes (observation), and it was karma/Grand Plan of God/soul contract (beliefs).
Person C: You're both having beliefs!

Person B is adding 'spiritual meaning' to the event, but can't prove Jack..
The statement person C makes it logically false..

You have consistently, over the course of various threads, been both person B and C..

My understanding is the "understanding and knowledge" of the personality is very different from that of the higher self. In effect, until we are realized and gain genuine insight/transcendence, it can be hard to figure out what is what, or why and how things have evolved. And/or why we might have made the choice we make/made as higher level beings.

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't say there can't be a Grand Plan. I'm saying it seems unlikely because what we have as explanation already works..
Why assume there is more to it..?

I'm just pointing out how you seem to come from a place of strong intellect and intellect cannot know what is beyond it; until you are able to, it's pure conjecture - either direction, in my opinion.

JL

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

Not quite. You make assumptions and use spiritual explanations, which means you're the one adding belief systems into this. I have not done this so far concerning these examples..

If a car hits a tree...

Person A: That car hit a tree (observation).
Person B: Yes (observation), and it was karma/Grand Plan of God/soul contract (beliefs).
Person C: You're both having beliefs!

Person B is adding 'spiritual meaning' to the event, but can't prove Jack..
The statement person C makes it logically false..

You have consistently, over the course of various threads, been both person B and C..

Yet you do not see that you too are adding your own interpretation to your observations. You are not Person A, simply observing. You are adding an assumption that it is all completely random.

If a car hits a tree...

Person A: That car hit a tree (observation).
Person B: Yes (observation), and it was karma/Grand Plan of God/soul contract (beliefs).
Person C: Yes (observation) and it was totally random with no subtle cause (belief).

Peace.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Yet you do not see that you too are adding your own interpretation to your observations. You are not Person A, simply observing. You are adding an assumption that it is all completely random.

If a car hits a tree...

Person A: That car hit a tree (observation).
Person B: Yes (observation), and it was karma/Grand Plan of God/soul contract (beliefs).
Person C: Yes (observation) and it was totally random with no subtle cause (belief).

Peace.

No, there is a cause. It could be the car is automatic, the person driving the car is drunk, or loses his control etc. There's a cause, but assuming there's a ''spiritual reason'' is from the realm of belief and an afterthought.