THE UNCONSCIOUS MIND.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

As in not selfish.....

There is nothing wrong about conscious selfishness. Well intentioned selfishness has to be a good thing, how can you help others if you can't help yourself, putting yourself first in some situations gives you strength that can be used positively.

When you say you want to be less selfish are you doing this for yourself, to fulfill your own ' Want's ' ?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by hallow

I don't see anything wrong a little challenge, it makes people think about what there really doing or believing. Like do you believe something just because someone wants you too. Or do you believe in something from the heart?

Any path has its challenges, so there is nothing wrong with "challenges". But again, there are healthy and unhealthy challenges. I quit smoking because my belief-path. That is an example of a healthy (and health-creating) challenge. Past that, I don't understand what you are saying here about "a little challenge". You will have to post an example of what you mean by that.

I was mostly talking about the nature of personal beliefs. A belief is something you choose, of your own free will, to believe. I said, if one's beliefs are constructive and healthy, then there is no problem.

But if one's CHOSEN beliefs are causing illness and chaos in one's life, then the question is why continue to FREELY CHOOSE to believe in such things? Why would someone freely choose to believe things that are hurting them? It is an act willful self-abuse as I said.

[Honza]

People are limited in their ability to act and choose freely. The ability to do so is something that needs to be hard won. People vary from very sophisticated and evolved to very basic and primitive.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Baile

I don't understand what you are saying here about "a little challenge". I was talking about beliefs. A belief is something you choose, of your own free will, to believe.

I said, if one's beliefs are constructive and healthy, then there is no problem.

But if one's CHOSEN beliefs are causing illness and chaos in one's life, then the question is why continue to FREELY CHOOSE to believe in such things? Why would someone freely choose to believe things that are hurting them? It is an act willful self-abuse as I said.

It seems you may be saying that personal beliefs that are hurting a person, can be okay and even good for a person. And that you don't see anything wrong that. If that's what you're suggesting, then this converstaion needs to open up into a broader examination of things like religious indoctrination and even spiritual psychosis. Because that's one of the beliefs cults use to indoctrinate people.

if they hurt anyone there not good. There's countless beliefs that are set up for the gain of one person or a small group. Even some of the most popular ones are set up that way. I choose not follow them. It's a very sensitive subject as you know. Some people it's completely useless to even talk to about it. I am sure there's a lot of people who don't like my views on it. If they feel the need to question me on my beliefs, that's fine I won't get upset. At the same time I went back and forth with people thinking I was nothing but right but realizing after I was just dumb. It happens, I make mistakes, I am only human. That's how people learn. I guess what I was really meaning is there's a lot of people who talk this and that but they don't know what there saying ,maybe they need to listen and learn what there really talking about. With a world of different beliefs and backrounds, and if the person truly believes in something I just can't bring myself to say your wrong and I am right. It's not my place to judge someone else's beliefs.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by hallow

With a world of different beliefs and backrounds, and if the person truly believes in something I just can't bring myself to say your wrong and I am right. It's not my place to judge someone else's beliefs.

Right, I see now.

Yes, that's not my position when it comes to beliefs that are damaging, destructive and harmful. I believe when it has reached that point, it needs to be pointed out. Negative beliefs can cause psychosis in people. I was part of a cult-like group for many years, and I have met many people who I would classify as mentally ill. They were ill because their ugly, negative, fear-driven beliefs had poisoned their mind and soul.

This is what happens in cults, and it is a real danger for people on the spiritual path. Negative, fear-driven beliefs can and do cause mental illness, period. And people who are ill like that, cannot see they are ill; that's part of the illness. And that's when others must point these things out. It's not judgment, it's trying to help someone escape the damaging and dangerous belief-mindtrap they've created for themselves.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Baile

Right, I see now.

Yes, that's not my position when it comes to beliefs that are damaging, destructive and harmful. I believe when it has reached that point, it needs to be pointed out. Negative beliefs can cause psychosis in people. I was part of a cult-like group for many years, and I have met many people who I would classify as mentally ill. They were ill because their ugly, negative, fear-driven beliefs had poisoned their mind and soul.

This is what happens in cults, and it is a real danger for people on the spiritual path. Negative, fear-driven beliefs can and do cause mental illness, period. And people who are ill like that, cannot see they are ill; that's part of the illness. And that's when others must point these things out. It's not judgment, it's trying to help someone escape the damaging and dangerous belief-mindtrap they've created for themselves.

how did you see what was going on was a negative thing?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by hallow

how did you see what was going on was a negative thing?

Honza made it clear these ideas and beliefs are "overloading my poor unconscious self" and "making myself ill" as he put it. I would call that negative, and time to do something about it.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Baile

Honza made it clear these ideas and beliefs are "overloading my poor unconscious self" and "making myself ill" as he put it. I would call that negative, and time to do something about it.

that's great to hear.

[Deja Roseguarden]

rier New"][Ya know how sometimes you can't remember a work no matter how hard you try to recollect it? Then you start thinking about something else like, you're out of underware and need to do the wash, or why is your cat not eating her favorite food....and Voila! The word comes to you.

Your'e trying too hard, just relax your mind and try to think of northing, or focus on a simple shape in your mind.

You'd be suprised at how much progress you make and the speedy rate that you make it[/font]

[Honza]

Do you believe in the collective unconscious?