Enlightnment.

[Iamit]

How would one ever know whether one or an other was enlightened or not? It could only ever be an alledged state which may or may not exist.

Yet some claim to be in such a state, and/or followers claim that the person they follow is in such a state.

Attempts are made to describe the characteristics but who is the authority on such matters and where do they get their authority from? Is it from some supernatural being or extraterrestial whose existance is easily challenged, or his/her representative on Earth?

[iamthat]

What do we mean by the term "enlightenment"? Different people have different ideas about what enlightenment is. There are definite expansions of consciousness on the spiritual path - at what point do we say, this is enlightenment?

Some people think of enlightenment as the ultimate goal, after which we have completed the spiritual journey. Other people think that the spiritual journey never ends - whatever our state of consciousness, there is always a greater state to aspire to.

Unfortunately there is a lot of glamour and illusion around spiritual teachers and the idea of enlightenment. Some people have an expansion of consciousness and believe that they are enlightened. Some people are only too wiling to call this teacher or that teacher enlightened - perhaps this makes them feel special, because they have sat at the feet of an enlightened Master. I doubt that any of us have reached a state where we can genuinely judge someone else's spiritual attainment and know where they stand.

At the end of the day, enlightenment is just another label. The genuinely enlightened Soul is not concerned what others think.

Peace.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Iamit

How would one ever know whether one or an other was enlightened or not? It could only ever be an alledged state which may or may not exist.

my question is, if you were truly enlightened, why would you even care that you were or were not enlightened?

anyway the way you put the question it is obviously jsut another ego-based concept to get fooled by

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

my question is, if you were truly enlightened, why would you even care that you were or were not enlightened?

anyway the way you put the question it is obviously jsut another ego-based concept to get fooled by

Exactly.

People can muck around with words and descriptions as much as they like and it will make no difference.

This comes directly off the back of another thread I just replied to. It's funny how when I check all my 'subscribed threads' people's responses (and mine) tend to directly follow each other - like the whole forum is one huge thread.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=111842&page=3

[self-realization]

Enlightenment, awakening, self realization occurs when there is a shift in consciousness that drops the illusion of a me and a mine. When there is no longer the illusion of a me, then all of life is a dynamic of mind and an awareness of that dynamic. When self-realization occurs and there is only a sense of awareness or knowingness, then transcendence occurs through that perception into a state of pure no-thingness. This is the Absolute.

[Iamit]

In the interest of protecting the character it serves, the mind can do whatever it wants.The levels of deception it can employ to that end are many and complex including presenting a character as enlightened if it resonates with that idea as a solution for the character it serves. It can conceal this activity even FROM ITSELF! (repression) if it thinks it is advantageous to do so

Can it be seen how useless it is to resist the mind. The you that is trying to resist IS the mind presenting at trying to resist itself!

Better just relax and hope that your mind is efficient at protecting you. There is obviously variation in its efficiency in different people as can been seen in the varying circumstances of those around us.

Because it can behave in that way, the mind may be regarded as an enemy but it is the mind itself saying that about itself!

These posts are also of course mind talking to itself and other minds.

Mind is an unbelievably fantastic thing of immense, possibly limitless power.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Iamit

In the interest of protecting the character it serves, the mind can do whatever it wants.The levels of deception it can employ to that end are many and complex including presenting a character as enlightened if it resonates with that idea as a solution for the character it serves. It can conceal this activity even FROM ITSELF! (repression) if it thinks it is advantageous to do so

Can it be seen how useless it is to resist the mind. The you that is trying to resist IS the mind presenting at trying to resist itself!

Better just relax and hope that your mind is efficient at protecting you. There is obviously variation in its efficiency in different people as can been seen in the varying circumstances of those around us.

Because it can behave in that way, the mind may be regarded as an enemy but it is the mind itself saying that about itself!

These posts are also of course mind talking to itself and other minds.

Mind is an unbelievably fantastic thing of immense, possibly limitless power.

all i can say, if you believe you are in a trap, you will act like you are in a trap, then you won't ever be able to believe you aren't in a trap!

[Nowayout]

The birds fly without a care, well they have their day but anyway, as people walk around with their heads in their hands, frowning as they go down the human roads.

Enlightenment = liberation but from what? The mind, the earthly bounds, the struggle.

Some say all we need to do is wake up. It's like a shift in awareness or some darn thing that all we can muster is a fleeting glimpse. Keeps us going....

Delusions, like angels feathers, are all around us.

I am everything and everything is me. Shure at a heart level.

What is the root of this enlightenment tree, the ground of the matter being we all want some relief?

OK..

No way out...

I left this town in darkness
With its lights fading
In the distance
Needing to escape
I went out to the desert
It was a passage
In time....
I'm going back now
to the city
To the lights
And all my friends
I missed
Along the way...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

The birds fly without a care, well they have their day but anyway, as people walk around with their heads in their hands, frowning as they go down the human roads.

Enlightenment = liberation but from what? The mind, the earthly bounds, the struggle.

Some say all we need to do is wake up. It's like a shift in awareness or some darn thing that all we can muster is a fleeting glimpse. Keeps us going....

Delusions, like angels feathers, are all around us.

I am everything and everything is me... OOOOOKKKKK.

What is the root of this tree, the ground of the matter being we all want some relief.

OK..

No way out...

i kind of agree... in my view enlightenment is itself just another trap for people to get caught in. You work really hard to be able to say you are not working at working, and you eventually get your desire. Then you sit around for a while doing little to nothing but just 'being', then you die, just like everyone else. And in a blink of an eye, it is all gone. No way out!

But then again I guess the birds aren't trying to 'get out of' their 'predicament' to 'some place better' either, are they? They just kinda plod along in an ordinary way doing ordinary things. Maybe that is why they seem so happy!

as far as wanting relief... I wanna eat cookies all the time too but I'm grown up and I know better. But man did it take me a lot of kicking and screaming before I would open my eyes enough to look at something i didn't want to see!

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

all i can say, if you believe you are in a trap, you will act like you are in a trap, then you won't ever be able to believe you aren't in a trap!

Exploring the nature, and possible manifestation patterns of Oneness/mind, is of academic interest only. Whether one is in a trap or not has no effect on connection here but thank you for your concern.