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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #71  
Old 06-06-2018, 01:03 AM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
I resonate with that, ajay. It dovetails with how I understand the referenced phenomena - except, in my view there are no 'falsehoods' - these are just egotistical projection/characterization IMO, condescendingly ascribed to what they regard as 'untruths' by peeps who like to think of themselves and their philosophies and philosophical traditions as 'enlightened' and so really truth-perceiving - the fact in my view is that there are simply, each 'true' in its 'own' way for its 'own' purposes, different ways of perceiving and responding to the same 'reality'.


Obviously, considering oneself as a human being is a sort of higher truth compared to considering oneself as a muslim, christian, crusader, jihadi, american,russian, chinese,japanese, white,black,red,yellow, catholic,protestant and so on.

It is in this sense that some nondualists disparage these labels as 'falsehoods' due to the damage they cause in the form of disharmony,conflict and wars.

We can use these identities as functional identities if needed to operate in the material world. For example, one need an American or French passport to go to the other country for identification purposes. But beyond that, clinging to such artificial identities only becomes a cause of woe and misery, as it comes at the cost of self-knowledge which brings with it peace and bliss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
If your sense' of Self or Being were 'truly' wholistic/cosmic, IMO, you would see that is nothing that is 'false' or 'artificial' in REALITY and understand why what I say is 'true'.

I 'see' everything and everyone as genuinely (i.e. truly!) being what it is and how they are.

Your 'vibe' is genuinely being sectarian in its own way, IOW - or so I 'truly' think, feel and believe, which thinking, feelng and believing if offer for your and others' consideration and contemplation.

WOOHOO!


There are some who become identified with the label of nondualists opposed to dualist, which is an another way of false identification and clinging to an artificial identity. It is good to be reminded about this so as to be vigilant, and to not get trapped in the straitjacket of labels through blind identification.


This is the nonduality forum, and this is why we happen to speak more on nondualist philosophy compared to the other forums.
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When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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  #72  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:52 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
Obviously, considering oneself as a human being is a sort of higher truth compared to considering oneself as a muslim, christian, crusader, jihadi, american,russian, chinese,japanese, white,black,red,yellow, catholic,protestant and so on.
...
This is the nonduality forum, and this is why we happen to speak more on nondualist philosophy compared to the other forums.
I get and appreciate the (potentially wisdom increasing) 'significances' you point to Ajay.

I think that, maybe, you don't 'get or 'appreciate' mine. I'll just end this (attempt at) meeting of minds by offering this for your and others' consideration):

Your characterization of the 'view' that you espouse as 'obviously' being 'higher' truth (that is 'higher' than the 'lower ' truths of the 'views' you compare 'it' to) clearly indicates that there is a dualistic aspect to your philosophy which you pretentiously (deluding yourself maybe?) posture as being non'dual'.

Just trying to shed light on what may be unseen about peeps who purport to be 'nondualistically' have a 'corner' on 'higher' truth, Bro.
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  #73  
Old 07-06-2018, 02:42 PM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
I get and appreciate the (potentially wisdom increasing) 'significances' you point to Ajay.

Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Your characterization of the 'view' that you espouse as 'obviously' being 'higher' truth (that is 'higher' than the 'lower ' truths of the 'views' you compare 'it' to) clearly indicates that there is a dualistic aspect to your philosophy which you pretentiously (deluding yourself maybe?) posture as being non'dual'.

Just trying to shed light on what may be unseen about peeps who purport to be 'nondualistically' have a 'corner' on 'higher' truth, Bro.


This was in reference to the 'falsehoods' and 'untruths' uttered by nondualists as mentioned by you.

You have to understand the bigger picture when they say it.

People miss constantly even the bigger picture of themselves as human beings, and fight over fictional aspects of reality like ' Jew' ,'Christian', 'Muslim', 'American', 'Russian', 'Shia', 'Sunni' and so on. When the common picture of our humanity is brought to them forcefully, people tend to come out of their conditioned influences and be less reactive and conflict-prone.

Similarly nondualists state there is a bigger picture than this too, and to bring attention to this fact, they pronounce everything else as 'falsehoods' and 'untruths'.
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When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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  #74  
Old 07-06-2018, 03:23 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
Similarly nondualists state there is a bigger picture than this too, and to bring attention to this fact, they pronounce everything else as 'falsehoods' and 'untruths'.
Hence what I point to as 'hypocrisy' in this regard. Words such as 'bigger' and phrases such a 'more comprehensive' may be non-dual-istically used to denote what is thought of as being a 'more' 'full' representation Life's Beingness, one that is all-embracing.

However, words like 'higher' and 'proper' (on the one hand) and 'false' and 'untrue' (on the other) communicate perceptions pertaining to 'reality' which not only dual-istic, but (IMO) functionally self-reifying-n-jusifying and pejorative in relation to others who are 'seen' and portrayed as being 'lower', 'improper', and (implicitly) 'detractive' aspect of said Beingness. These indicate that 'oneupmanship' is being 'practiced', IMO.

IMO, a 'true' nondualist (in the sense of having integrity in said regard) would 'see' everything, everyone, every-view, etc. as being valid and playing a 'positively' (in its own way) creative role, and so being a fully belonging 'player, in the 'cosmic drama', 'flow' (whatever) of Life. Words such as the ones I critique would only be by him or her in a carefully qualified (so as not to stir up and support 'us'-vs-'them' schisms) way.

Note to Ajay: I am only attempting to share my perspective on this score with others now.
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Last edited by davidsun : 07-06-2018 at 05:19 PM.
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  #75  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:23 PM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Hence what I point to as 'hypocrisy' in this regard. Words such as 'bigger' and phrases such a 'more comprehensive' may be non-dual-istically used to denote what is thought of as being a 'more' 'full' representation Life's Beingness, one that is all-embracing.

However, words like 'higher' and 'proper' (on the one hand) and 'false' and 'untrue' (on the other) communicate perceptions pertaining to 'reality' which not only dual-istic, but (IMO) functionally self-aggrandizing and pejorative in relation to others who are 'seen' and portrayed as being 'lower', 'improper', and (implicitly) 'detractive' aspect of said Beingness. These indicate that 'oneupmanship' is being 'practiced', IMO.



A thorn can be used to remove an another thorn lodged in the flesh. Similarly words themselves can be used skillfully by the nondualist to bring people conditioned into duality, out of it, by showing them the hollowness of labels and words with respect to the existential reality.

This is all there is to it.


The dualist lives in words and labels in his mental world marked by compulsive thinking and emoting, while the nondualist uses words and labels for his practical use, and switches it off while living in the real world so as to enjoy the flowers, full moon, stars and countryside better.
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When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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  #76  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:33 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
A thorn can be used to remove an another thorn lodged in the flesh. Similarly words themselves can be used skillfully by the nondualist to bring people conditioned into duality, out of it, by showing them the hollowness of labels and words with respect to the existential reality.
"With what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (according to JC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
This is all there is to it: The dualist lives in words and labels in his mental world marked by compulsive thinking and emoting, while the nondualist uses words and labels for his practical use, and switches it off while living in the real world so as to enjoy the flowers, full moon, stars and countryside better.
'All' in the eye of the beholder, aye what?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/barba...b_9570336.html
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  #77  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:06 AM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
"With what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (according to JC)

Imo, Jesus Christ himself was a nondualist.

His statement 'I and my Father are one' ( John 10:30) is the same as the Sufi enlightened sage Mansur All Hallaj's Ana 'l-Ḥaqq ( I am the Truth), and the ancient Upanishadic saying Aham Brahmasmi (I am He) of Hinduism.

It is through nondualism that most of Jesus Christs teachings could be understood logically in the correct context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
'All' in the eye of the beholder, aye what?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/barba...b_9570336.html

All in the eye of the beholder who lives in existential reality and not psychological reality created by words and labels.
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When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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  #78  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:30 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay00
All in the eye of the beholder who lives in existential reality and not psychological reality created by words and labels.
Lip-service is easy. The 'proof' is in the 'pudding', everyone.
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  #79  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:45 PM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Lip-service is easy.




Is that why you talk so much?
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  #80  
Old 21-06-2018, 08:50 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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Once thought non-duality the secret of secrets. However, as can be plainly seen, 'it is written', a symbolic crustacean.

P.s. Don't be crabby. Sub Rosa. Read between the lines.
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