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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 13-12-2017, 02:14 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Until there is no more 'knowing' and then love exists in and of itself and the 'movie' ends.

My 'Higher Self' who is yet another character in this 'dual movie' said to explain it this way;

Ramana Maharishi, for all of his 'Self Inquiry'...for all his 'Advaita' for all his 'all is Brahman' had one thing...one relation within this 'dual universe' to be able understand it all....to get into that state, to reach that conclusion....his beloved hill of Arunachala.

Arunachala is also a manifestation of Lord Shiva...so whenever he saw the hill of Arunachala, he saw Lord Shiva...whenever he saw Lord Shiva, it led him to realise that Shiva was within and without...it led him from Saguna Brahman (Arunachala) to Nirguna Brahman (Paramatman)...but he still loved that hill, in this full-on duality movie all his life.

There is nothing I can do to stop myself, to stop my heart from also feeling this incredible love for Lord Shiva...for Brahman...and so, I will live in this 'Duality Movie' until Shiva takes me beyond it into Non-Duality...then I come back down into Duality again...then into Non-Duality again...then into Duality again....until I see that even Duality VS Non-Duality is STILL Duality!

Its enough for some that the feeling of disconnection has ended. I hope you get back the experience you describe and that it stays with you.
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  #12  
Old 13-12-2017, 03:10 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Its enough for some that the feeling of disconnection has ended. I hope you get back the experience you describe and that it stays with you.
Thank you.
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  #13  
Old 13-12-2017, 11:41 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
NA is the only solution that states there is already no distance between seeker and sought no matter what state the seeker is already in. Exploring this option may be attractive to seekers who have become dissolutioned with paths and practises or are characters who lack the discipline for such, or you may have always had a feeling that the solution to the search is that all is perfect and complete just as it already is.

Should any of that apply to you it may lead to a feeling of despair that nothing works for you, but that is exactly the place in which the concept All is One may resonate.

Our default condition (from about the age of one or two) is to uphold, maintain and reinforce the compulsion of separation. As we grow older, society, education, media and our own habits of mind work hard to keep this misapprehension in place.

Sometimes, for various reasons (often when we are out on the edge of our safety zones), the veil can drop and we glimpse the truth of our situation. It can last for minutes, hours, days, sometimes longer. But often the patterns that held the delusion in place reassert themselves. At this point the seeker becomes perplexed and often distraught because the thought/idea that ‘all is one’ or ’there is no separation’ still resonates but the felt-sense and release of contraction that accompanied the initial glimpses have faded. The seeker is then left with nothing more than information.

This is the issue here. There is a difference between the orientation that all is One and the information that all is One. Until the orientation that all is One is the felt-sense reality, seekers will be left in a position of contraction and subtle seeking.

For this reason the approach or ‘solution’ that you speak of here is unlikely to be considered a breakthrough for most seekers despite its attractive (and intellectually truthful) veneer.

This is not to knock it. Perhaps it is possible in some cases that living with the concept over a period of time will infuse daily life to such a degree that the orientation will assert itself. But until that is the reality the seeker will remain in the predicament of contraction and subtle seeking.
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  #14  
Old 14-12-2017, 10:34 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Our default condition (from about the age of one or two) is to uphold, maintain and reinforce the compulsion of separation. As we grow older, society, education, media and our own habits of mind work hard to keep this misapprehension in place.

Sometimes, for various reasons (often when we are out on the edge of our safety zones), the veil can drop and we glimpse the truth of our situation. It can last for minutes, hours, days, sometimes longer. But often the patterns that held the delusion in place reassert themselves. At this point the seeker becomes perplexed and often distraught because the thought/idea that ‘all is one’ or ’there is no separation’ still resonates but the felt-sense and release of contraction that accompanied the initial glimpses have faded. The seeker is then left with nothing more than information.

This is the issue here. There is a difference between the orientation that all is One and the information that all is One. Until the orientation that all is One is the felt-sense reality, seekers will be left in a position of contraction and subtle seeking.

For this reason the approach or ‘solution’ that you speak of here is unlikely to be considered a breakthrough for most seekers despite its attractive (and intellectually truthful) veneer.

This is not to knock it. Perhaps it is possible in some cases that living with the concept over a period of time will infuse daily life to such a degree that the orientation will assert itself. But until that is the reality the seeker will remain in the predicament of contraction and subtle seeking.

You try hard to judge the quality of what others may be experiencing. Really why do you bother with that?
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  #15  
Old 14-12-2017, 11:50 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You try hard to judge the quality of what others may be experiencing. Really why do you bother with that?

There’s really no reason to adopt a defensive position - it just shuts the conversation down. I’ve been around this stuff for many years and have spoken with many seekers - in correspondence and on forums. My comments are based on what others are reporting. It’s not a mystery.
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  #16  
Old 14-12-2017, 02:21 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
.
You try hard to judge the quality of what others may be experiencing. Really why do you bother with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
There’s really no reason to adopt a defensive position - it just shuts the conversation down. I’ve been around this stuff for many years and have spoken with many seekers - in correspondence and on forums. My comments are based on what others are reporting. It’s not a mystery.


Obviously, an obstinately defensive position indicates that the "feeling of disconnection" has not been curtailed; is significantly present in some way.

Further, and consistent with that posture, the notion that those who are not proponents of NA are "judging the quality of what others (e.g., NA) are experiencing", with the morally negative imputation therein, while the incessantly repeated defensive presumptions and conclusions that implicitly and explicitly negate that very same privilege of discretion in others/other paths, are somehow immune from the very same 'deficiency of correctness', is not credible.

Example: that per Iamit:
Quote:
"NA is the only solution that states there is already no distance between seeker and sought no matter what state the seeker is already in."
That is not true, and never has been for the major legitimate yogic paths.

Also, that it is oneness, even partially realized which is the functional basis of true discernment, e.g., to know directly and subjectively, the quality of consciousness in and through any differentiation of and within that (one) self. To say that 'All is One' as an immutable tenet, but then exclude that oneness as an operative principle of access and cognition when it is convenient to moral arguments is also quite suspect.

It seems that NA so-called (or at least as represented in these many redundant threads), is rife with these types of fundamentally wrong presumptions, the alleged correction of which supposedly constitutes some 'radical departure', which hasn't been demonstrated, even theoretically, as evidenced by these discussions.

~ J
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  #17  
Old 14-12-2017, 05:45 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir


Obviously, an obstinately defensive position indicates that the "feeling of disconnection" has not been curtailed; is significantly present in some way.

Further, and consistent with that posture, the notion that those who are not proponents of NA are "judging the quality of what others (e.g., NA) are experiencing", with the morally negative imputation therein, while the incessantly repeated defensive presumptions and conclusions that implicitly and explicitly negate that very same privilege of discretion in others/other paths, are somehow immune from the very same 'deficiency of correctness', is not credible.

Example: that per Iamit: That is not true, and never has been for the major legitimate yogic paths.

Also, that it is oneness, even partially realized which is the functional basis of true discernment, e.g., to know directly and subjectively, the quality of consciousness in and through any differentiation of and within that (one) self. To say that 'All is One' as an immutable tenet, but then exclude that oneness as an operative principle of access and cognition when it is convenient to moral arguments is also quite suspect.

It seems that NA so-called (or at least as represented in these many redundant threads), is rife with these types of fundamentally wrong presumptions, the alleged correction of which supposedly constitutes some 'radical departure', which hasn't been demonstrated, even theoretically, as evidenced by these discussions.

~ J

You set yourself the impossible task of excluding what you refer to above as not being Oneness manifest. If Oneness is the only reality, there can be no exceptions but keep trying.

Good luck with that task. When you discover an exception, let me know:)
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  #18  
Old 14-12-2017, 05:53 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
There’s really no reason to adopt a defensive position - it just shuts the conversation down. I’ve been around this stuff for many years and have spoken with many seekers - in correspondence and on forums. My comments are based on what others are reporting. It’s not a mystery.

I was actually interested to know so I dont think its me who is being defensive. But thank for for your reply which states you accept what you are told about others when they describe thier experience..............as I do.
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  #19  
Old 14-12-2017, 06:43 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You set yourself the impossible task of excluding what you refer to above as not being Oneness manifest. If Oneness is the only reality, there can be no exceptions but keep trying.

Good luck with that task. When you discover an exception, let me know:)

Hi Iamit,

It would be helpful if you would please cite/quote the passage(s) in my post that the bolded above is indicating. Thank you.

~ J
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  #20  
Old 15-12-2017, 12:37 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Iamit,

It would be helpful if you would please cite/quote the passage(s) in my post that the bolded above is indicating. Thank you.

~ J

It would be simpler if you could answer the following question:-

Is any of your post in question, referring to anything other than Oneness manifest? If it is which bits would that be and what is manifesting as those bits?

:)
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