Zen - Notes & Questions

[Perspective]

I just finished a book, "Talking Zen" (by Alan Watts) & wanted to share some things I learned...
If I'm way off, or you resonate... feel free to let me know.
And if you have any answers to my questions, please enlighten me!

Notes:

Life is like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself.
Shakespear: "There is nothing either slow or fast, but thinking makes it so."

Child-like, unselfconscious adults are integrated - not at cross- purposes with themselves. They don't get in their own way & stand in their own light...
They have an unaggressive but unshakable assurance of the naturalness of everything that one feels & does, even if one is in the wrong.
(I love people like this & hope to become more this way!)

The ego is a chronic & habitual sense of muscular strain, which we were taught to do in the process of performing normally spontaneous things ...
When we try to control our emotions, we hold our breath, tighten our muscles to "pull ourselves together."
(I wonder if there's more to ego... or if this is the base of it)

Everything is in harmony with the Tao... the Tao is that from which nothing can depart, & that from which things can depart is not the Tao. Fundamentally, then we cannot escape it. It is as if we are all floating in a tremendous river, which carries us along... We can swim against it & pretend not to be flowing with it, but we still are. What's more, the person who gives up that pretense, who realizes one is inevitably carried by the river & swims with it, suddenly acquires behind everything he does, the force of the river.
(This gives new meaning to living "in the flow" )

Questions:

Zen seems to be about being free by being "magnficently spontaneous" - but could that also mean "carelessly impulsive?"

Zen teaches against the mentality that would rather control the world than love it. Yet, doesn't a parent or anyone with "self-control" use control as part of love?

There seem to be a lot of Zen stories of the masters wacking their students to teach them... This seems to be the opposite of God or goodness. There are many other ways to teach. Why use physical abuse?

[hope]

Masters wacking their students isn't about physical abuse. it is waking up the "qi" flow of meditation. to bring them back to "center" of meditation .

Zen seems to be about being free by being "magnficently spontaneous" - but could that also mean "carelessly impulsive?"

Actually, its about living in the life dynamic, following the chi of the moment that always leads to the fullest expression of joy. Doing this always yields good results.

Zen teaches against the mentality that would rather control the world than love it. Yet, doesn't a parent or anyone with "self-control" use control as part of love?

One is suppose to love the world, and control himself. A man may not control anything external to himself.

an example is: "The first student finds a situation that angers him, and tries to stop himself from becoming angry, thus he fails.. The second student chooses inside himself to withdraw from anger, and thus he never finds a situation that can anger him."

In this way, one masters his emotions.

If you want a more technical explanation.. in neurobiology, the "emotional" brain is nothing more than a set defined responses to stimuli, most of which is learned. Its the part of the brain essentially devoted to social activity, that is geared primarily towards survival and reproduction, despite this, its not any different than any other learned response and changing the way in which one responds can be done very easily.

In doing this, one chooses which emotions he wants to have and which situations illicit those emotions.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Perspective

I just finished a book, "Talking Zen" (by Alan Watts) & wanted to share some things I learned...
If I'm way off, or you resonate... feel free to let me know.
And if you have any answers to my questions, please enlighten me!

Notes:

Life is like an eye that sees, but cannot see itself.
Shakespear: "There is nothing either slow or fast, but thinking makes it so."

Child-like, unselfconscious adults are integrated - not at cross- purposes with themselves. They don't get in their own way & stand in their own light...
They have an unaggressive but unshakable assurance of the naturalness of everything that one feels & does, even if one is in the wrong.
(I love people like this & hope to become more this way!)

The ego is a chronic & habitual sense of muscular strain, which we were taught to do in the process of performing normally spontaneous things ...
When we try to control our emotions, we hold our breath, tighten our muscles to "pull ourselves together."
(I wonder if there's more to ego... or if this is the base of it)

Everything is in harmony with the Tao... the Tao is that from which nothing can depart, & that from which things can depart is not the Tao. Fundamentally, then we cannot escape it. It is as if we are all floating in a tremendous river, which carries us along... We can swim against it & pretend not to be flowing with it, but we still are. What's more, the person who gives up that pretense, who realizes one is inevitably carried by the river & swims with it, suddenly acquires behind everything he does, the force of the river.
(This gives new meaning to living "in the flow" )

Questions:

Zen seems to be about being free by being "magnficently spontaneous" - but could that also mean "carelessly impulsive?"

Zen teaches against the mentality that would rather control the world than love it. Yet, doesn't a parent or anyone with "self-control" use control as part of love?

There seem to be a lot of Zen stories of the masters wacking their students to teach them... This seems to be the opposite of God or goodness. There are many other ways to teach. Why use physical abuse?

First off, I love the excerpts you posting. I use to enjoy reading Alan Watts. I too can see that we mature 'spiritually' to be more childlike and I love the river flow thing you posted.
All in All, I appreciate this post and really enjoyed it...thank you.
As far as the questions, I trust that you will find the answers.
James

[Perspective]

Hope,
Thanks for your explanation... I realize they hit their students not to be abusive, but to teach... maybe like spanking a child to get them centered. Still, I think there are often better methods to get your point across - it just takes more creativity. Example is the most powerful teacher.

SaladKiller,
Thank you for clarifying that "control" comes from within.
It's like the "love & logic" parenting method... you love your kids & let them know you're on their side, but you also let them experience the logical consequences of their behavior, so they learn to control themselves.

WhiteShaman,
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciated it.

[Samana]

Hi Perspective,

Unfortunately Alan Watts was an alcoholic and so his books are perhaps not the best introduction to Zen.

If you are genuinely interested in Zen Buddhism, then I suggest you ask your questions at Zen Forum International where you'll find lots of informative discussions, Zen practitioners and an 'Ask a Teacher' section.

Here's the link:

http://www.zenforuminternational.org/



with kind wishes,

Samana

Originally Posted by Perspective

Hope,
Thanks for your explanation... I realize they hit their students not to be abusive, but to teach... maybe like spanking a child to get them centered. Still, I think there are often better methods to get your point across - it just takes more creativity. Example is the most powerful teacher.

I am afraid you do not know what Zen is about. There is no way that example, which is essentially based on imitation, would ever achieve the aim of Zen.

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by Samana

Unfortunately Alan Watts was an alcoholic and so his books are perhaps not the best introduction to Zen.

Thanks, Samana, I needed that laugh.
That link looks interesting, thanks for sharing.

PreDawn,
I understand that Zen is about Self-discovery (with a Capital S), so I see your point about no teaching by example... yet if there is no point in example, why is there Zen literature, stories or masters?
Anyway, I was referring mostly to parenting... babies & children learn by imitation.

Zen.......to stop thinking.

Zen is the beginning and the end of he mystery.

To experience everything at once without experiencing anything in particular.

I entered Zen just to Realize I never left it!

The Pen of Zen is Mightier than the Atom bomb.

Never has No-thing been more important, that is the Mystery of Zen.

Do not mistake it with doing nothing. Out of this No-thing-ness, all proper Action stems and then flowers in full bloom.

Zen is NO JOKE!

It is ........

every joke!

Originally Posted by Samana

Unfortunately Alan Watts was an alcoholic and so his books are perhaps not the best introduction to Zen.

If we are to belief the literature many of the Daoist sages loved their wine a little bit too much and too often.

Whatever he was partial to it did not seem to inhibit his ability to get Zen across in a fresh and understandable manner.
Judge what he wrote on its own merit, not who wrote it.