Faith: intellectual or absolute ~

[Joyce]

Does anyone else feel the same about faith as I do? Let me explain . .

I feel we can have faith about a higher power simply from what we've been told, what we learn from church, family . . And this I feel is intellectual only. So this is dependent on outside info.

Yet when faith is absolute, I feel it comes from experience, from our own formulation of belief that it is what it is, or everything happens as it should, or everything works out when "the" time is right, or the law of attraction and all it encompasses (which includes things being 'repelled - by our energy).

I guess what I'm getting at is the feeling of faith being an intellectual is NOT real faith; as compared to absolute from inside your own self.

Thanks for letting me get this out ~

[Baile]

Hi Joyce. It happened in my life that faith and hope was replaced with surety and knowing. Happened as a result of a metaphysical event. Once I had the direct experience, there was no longer any doubt; no longer any need for faith and hope. I became as sure of the eternal soul and benevolent spirit, as I am sure the sun rises in the east.

And of course the trick is... How does it happen that one can gain this sort of surety? And that as you put it has much to do with "time is right" and attraction consciousness. And understanding that "everything happens as it should," is one of the first realization steps in that process.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by Baile

Hi Joyce. It happened in my life that faith and hope was replaced with surety and knowing. Happened as a result of a metaphysical event. Once I had the direct experience, there was no longer any doubt; no longer any need for faith and hope. I became as sure of the eternal soul and benevolent spirit, as I am sure the sun rises in the east.

And of course the trick is... How does it happen that one can gain this sort of surety? And that as you put it has much to do with "time is right" and attraction consciousness. And understanding that "everything happens as it should," is one of the first realization steps in that process.

I don't understand Baile; I don't understand how there can be no need for faith. Isn't faith simply knowing the higher power exists and it's not just us creating the life we experience, but some mystical, magical, whatever, power greater than ourselves?

I think if you're saying there's no need then perhaps you're saying the intellectual faith?

[Starman]

Everyone has faith in something; our faith is interwoven with our expectations. Expectations based on faith
are usually tempered by previous experiences. Experience often feeds our expectations and gives us faith in
the results we may be seeking.

To have expectations without prior experience is the same as having faith without evidence. Faith is based on
evidence of things to come. I had some idea, and faith, that there was life after human death and then I had
an out-of-body experience and it proved to me beyond any doubt that there was life after death.

I still have faith but my faith is now based on prior experience with extrapolations, or estimates, from that prior
experience. I have faith that God, or the universe, is guiding me, and this is based on my human journey to this
point. I believe that everyone believes in something and faith is all about what we believe.

Yes, there is a difference between experiential faith and intellectual faith; in my opinion. Gnostic's base their
beliefs on experience and not just what a "holy" book or someone else may say; even if that person is a minister,
priest, or other clergy. All we can truly speak about is our own experience.

[Frozen Ghost]

Originally Posted by Joyce

Does anyone else feel the same about faith as I do? Let me explain . .

I feel we can have faith about a higher power simply from what we've been told, what we learn from church, family . . And this I feel is intellectual only. So this is dependent on outside info.

Yet when faith is absolute, I feel it comes from experience, from our own formulation of belief that it is what it is, or everything happens as it should, or everything works out when "the" time is right, or the law of attraction and all it encompasses (which includes things being 'repelled - by our energy).

I guess what I'm getting at is the feeling of faith being an intellectual is NOT real faith; as compared to absolute from inside your own self.

Thanks for letting me get this out ~

It's what I call knowing about God verses knowing God. Religion tries to tell us about God and all the ideas and doctrines that the organisations have built around their concept of the Divine. Then there is knowing God, which is a personal/mystical/metaphysical experience. And this brings us a faith that is far beyond the ideologies that have been passed down to us by man.

[firstandlast]

I found that, faith is in the actions I take in choice; the things I truly respond to as true; not the ideas that try to explain them, but that the more all encompassing explanation of every choice I make being the same choice I have always made the higher quality do I experience my faith that always exists, but ever changing in form--

[neil]

Jesus would have been trying to teach the people, as to why they had so much physical, emotional & physical pain in their lives. & who & what was the cause of it. Believe it or not...it is the dark spiritual beings....who so constantly surround us and who endeavor to turn our thoughts away from god and his ""WAY OF LOVE""....AND SALVATION.

He also tried to teach people how to rid themselves of the dark ones and all of their mental emotional and physical problems which were caused by the dark beings.

And the only way to truly rid themselves of the dark ones, and the ill health caused by the dark beings, is to allow gods very essence to flow into their "soul being" which would transform them into very bright souls...of the "DEVINE" SOUL TRANSFORMATION.
And the more and more a soul being transforms, the closer to god creator that person becomes.... and in effect, changing the structure of the soul being, which stops the dark beings, being able to make an energetic SOUL TO SOUL connection.
Soul beings that are transforming themselves with more and more of gods very essence can move through very high and exalted locations, that get more and more exhalted the closer to god creator that these locations are.

DARK BEINGS FEEL VERY STIFLED AND UNCOMFORTABLE IN THE HIGHER MORE EXHALTED LOCATIONS AND THEY, SIMPLY CANNOT THINK NOR FUNCTION, AND IT IS THE SAME IF THEY TRY TO MAKE AN ENERGETIC ATTACHMENT TO AN EXHALTED BEING..."IT IS SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE""...←←ONE OF THE TRUE MEANINGS OF GODS VERY ESSENCE... (HIS HOLY SPIRITUALY ENERGY, BEING OUR SAVIOR)

NOW, some of you may think that I have digressed well of the topic, BUT ,I felt that the above needed to be said, before I got to the topic of the last few posts.

People simply couldn't believe things, that they thought were of an unbelievable supernatural nature. And the only way for them to believe was for Jesus to show them, the power that a TRANSFORMED SOUL BEING was capable of.
He was able to demonstrate his aura and perform magical miraculous tasks.

And after explaining, that they could not see the unseen dark beings, who are definitely able to stop people, from feeling the inflowings of god creators very essence (THE "HOLY SPIRIT'UAL" TRANSFORMING ENERGY).

JESUS TOLD THEM, THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP DESIRING AND PRAYING, FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT, TO TAKE HOLD AND RECONSTRUCT "SOUL"

AND ALTHOUGH, THEY COULD NOT FEEL THE INFLOWINGS, THEY SHOULD HAVE A "HUGE FAITH", THAT IT DOES FLOW INTO THEM, AND TRANSFORM, PROTECT AND LEAVE THEM AS EXHALTED BEINGS.

JUST AS HE WAS AND STILL IS.

ALL THEY NEEDED,...WAS A...."FAITH"...AND DESIRE.

To all of you, WITH A HUMBLE SINCERITY, from me, Neil...smiles.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Joyce

Does anyone else feel the same about faith as I do? Let me explain . .

I feel we can have faith about a higher power simply from what we've been told, what we learn from church, family . . And this I feel is intellectual only. So this is dependent on outside info.

Yet when faith is absolute, I feel it comes from experience, from our own formulation of belief that it is what it is, or everything happens as it should, or everything works out when "the" time is right, or the law of attraction and all it encompasses (which includes things being 'repelled - by our energy).

I guess what I'm getting at is the feeling of faith being an intellectual is NOT real faith; as compared to absolute from inside your own self.

Thanks for letting me get this out ~

Great point. This is my own conviction as well, that faith emerges from experiential understanding rather than intellectual understanding.

In fact spirituality itself is all about experiential understanding.

Unfortunately present human civilization has elevated intellectual understanding to the point where it pervades everything, and where one intellectually dissects a flower or rose instead of experiencing or enjoying it for what it is.

Experiential understanding is not well understood or just ignored plainly by educators, and this has resulted in lopsided individuals and humanity, which is creating human conflicts and upsetting the balance of nature as well.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Joyce

I don't understand Baile; I don't understand how there can be no need for faith. Isn't faith simply knowing the higher power exists and it's not just us creating the life we experience, but some mystical, magical, whatever, power greater than ourselves?

We're in agreement, just interpreting the word "faith" differently. Faith to me is like hope: "I hope this will happen; I have faith it will." A person needs neither faith nor hope when they absolutely know, as in, "This WILL definitely happen."

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Starman

Yes, there is a difference between experiential faith and intellectual faith

Yes, that is the difference. Having the metaphysical experience certainly ends any and all doubts. It's not about "hoping and believing" after that, it's about "knowing for a fact."