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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #1  
Old 03-12-2010, 11:09 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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the integration of I AM and G-d

To many of us at SF and probably world wide too, there is a distinct difference between I AM (Hinduism/Buddhism) and G-d (Judaism/Islam).

The two spiritual paths seem incompatible.

I had a thought that perhaps the union of the two is what Jesus was talking about.

Jesus called Himself "The Son Of G-d" - Not "G-d" nor "I AM" - BUT BOTH!

He was apparently the connection of the two dichotomous truths.

To put it into simple language; He knew He was not ALL - The Father. Yet He also knew that He was G-d - I AM.

So how do you solve this riddle of being both G-d and not G-d?

You become "The Son Of G-d". Both G-d and I AM.

Jesus knew that it is impossible to be ALL of G-d...one has to let ALL of G-d BE. Not BE ALL of G-d.

Yet He also knew that He was an equal PART of that totality. He knew He was G-d as an equal. He knew He was I AM.

So what jesus was talking about is the integration of G-d and I AM, whereby ones "I" is an EQUAL part of the totality of G-d.
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2010, 04:49 PM
RabbiO RabbiO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
To many of us at SF and probably world wide too, there is a distinct difference between I AM (Hinduism/Buddhism) and G-d (Judaism/Islam).

The two spiritual paths seem incompatible.

I had a thought that perhaps the union of the two is what Jesus was talking about.

Jesus called Himself "The Son Of G-d" - Not "G-d" nor "I AM" - BUT BOTH!

He was apparently the connection of the two dichotomous truths.

To put it into simple language; He knew He was not ALL - The Father. Yet He also knew that He was G-d - I AM.

So how do you solve this riddle of being both G-d and not G-d?

You become "The Son Of G-d". Both G-d and I AM.

Jesus knew that it is impossible to be ALL of G-d...one has to let ALL of G-d BE. Not BE ALL of G-d.

Yet He also knew that He was an equal PART of that totality. He knew He was G-d as an equal. He knew He was I AM.

So what jesus was talking about is the integration of G-d and I AM, whereby ones "I" is an EQUAL part of the totality of G-d.

H-

I'm not sure that placing this thread on the Judaism sub-forum is the best location for it if you insist on making Jesus a part of the conversation.

Further, though there are distinct differences between Hinduism and Judaism, an examination of the mystic tradition of Judaism might give you reason to change your mind, on some levels, regarding compatibility.

B'shalom,

Peter
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:15 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbiO
H-

I'm not sure that placing this thread on the Judaism sub-forum is the best location for it if you insist on making Jesus a part of the conversation.

Further, though there are distinct differences between Hinduism and Judaism, an examination of the mystic tradition of Judaism might give you reason to change your mind, on some levels, regarding compatibility.

B'shalom,

Peter

Agreed on all points Rabbio! Also, Esther, nice article :)

Honza...as Rabbio mentioned, in both Hinduism and mystical Judaism, the formless One/God emanates into the physicality of our existence...and the spark of the divine is in everything. Thus God is (in) us and and we are (in) God...keep the (in) in if it helps your understanding, and if not, omit. Clearly we are not the all knowing and formless One...and yet we are all (finite material individuated self-aware and God-like) aspects of the divine. We reflect God and God contains all.

Here's some interesting info on the soul from the Kabbalistic perspective:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah
Human soul in Kabbalah
See also: Gilgul

Abraham Abulafia's meditation techniques included the "inner illumination of" the human form.[19]


The Kabbalah posits that the human soul has three elements, the nefesh, ru'ach, and neshamah. The nefesh is found in all humans, and enters the physical body at birth. It is the source of one's physical and psychological nature. The next two parts of the soul are not implanted at birth, but can be developed over time; their development depends on the actions and beliefs of the individual. They are said to only fully exist in people awakened spiritually. A common way of explaining the three parts of the soul is as follows:
  • Nefesh (נפש): the lower part, or "animal part", of the soul. It is linked to instincts and bodily cravings.
  • Ruach (רוח): the middle soul, the "spirit". It contains the moral virtues and the ability to distinguish between good and evil.
  • Neshamah (נשמה): the higher soul, or "super-soul". This separates man from all other life-forms. It is related to the intellect, and allows man to enjoy and benefit from the afterlife. This part of the soul is provided at birth and allows one to have some awareness of the existence and presence of God.
The Raaya Meheimna, a section of related teachings spread throughout the Zohar, discusses fourth and fifth parts of the human soul, the chayyah and yehidah (first mentioned in the Midrash Rabbah). Gershom Scholem writes that these "were considered to represent the sublimest levels of intuitive cognition, and to be within the grasp of only a few chosen individuals". The Chayyah and the Yechidah do not enter into the body like the other three—thus they received less attention in other sections of the Zohar.
  • Chayyah (חיה): The part of the soul that allows one to have an awareness of the divine life force itself.
  • Yehidah (יחידה): the highest plane of the soul, in which one can achieve as full a union with God as is possible.
Both rabbinic and kabbalistic works posit that there are a few additional, non-permanent states of the soul that people can develop on certain occasions. These extra souls, or extra states of the soul, play no part in any afterlife scheme, but are mentioned for completeness:
  • Ruach HaKodesh (רוח הקודש) ("spirit of holiness"): a state of the soul that makes prophecy possible. Since the age of classical prophecy passed, no one (outside of Israel) receives the soul of prophesy any longer. See the teachings of Abraham Abulafia for differing views of this matter.
  • Neshamah Yeseira: The "supplemental soul" that a Jew can experience on Shabbat. It makes possible an enhanced spiritual enjoyment of the day. This exists only when one is observing Shabbat; it can be lost and gained depending on one's observance.
  • Neshamah Kedosha: Provided to Jews at the age of maturity (13 for boys, 12 for girls), and is related to the study and fulfillment of the Torah commandments. It exists only when one studies and follows Torah; it can be lost and gained depending on one's study and observance.
I think that we are coming into an age where we are becoming more aware of the existence of the Chayyah (חיה) and the Yehidah (יחידה) and thus the need to better understand the mystical concept of God/I am.

Cheers :)
7L
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  #4  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:02 AM
RabbiO RabbiO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Agreed on all points Rabbio! Also, Esther, nice article :)

Honza...as Rabbio mentioned, in both Hinduism and mystical Judaism, the formless One/God emanates into the physicality of our existence...and the spark of the divine is in everything. Thus God is (in) us and and we are (in) God...keep the (in) in if it helps your understanding, and if not, omit. Clearly we are not the all knowing and formless One...and yet we are all (finite material individuated self-aware and God-like) aspects of the divine. We reflect God and God contains all.

Here's some interesting info on the soul from the Kabbalistic perspective:

7L

7L -

Speaking of Hinduism, thinking of OM brings to mind Brahman and thinking of Brahman brings to mind both Ayn Sof and Ayin. As Prof. Daniel Matt, who has been involved in a massive translation of the Zohar, has written in part -

The kabbalists adopt Maimonides' negative style of theology and take it to an extreme. Among their new names for God, Eyn Sof is the most famous but not the most radical. Having carved away all that is false, they discover a paradox of a name: ayin, Nothingness....

What does it mean to call God Nothingness? It does not mean that God does not exist. In the words of a fourteenth-century kabbalist, David ben Abraham Halavan,

Nothingness (ayin) is more existent than all the being of the world. But since it is simple, and all simple things are complex compared with its simplicity, in comparison it is called ayin...

Ayin is a name for the nameless. It conveys the idea that God is no thing, neither this nor that. Rather, as ayin, God animates all things and cannot be contained by them. The paradox is that ayin embraces "everything" and "nothing." This nothingness is oneness, undifferentiated oneness, overwhelming the distinctions between things. God is the oneness that is no particular thing, no thingness, Nothingness with a capital N.

Ayin is not empty or barren; it is fertile and overflowing, engendering the myriad forms of life. According to Jewish, Christian and Islamic medieval philosophy, the world was created "out of nothing" (yesh me'ayin, ex nihilo, min la shai). The mystics turn this formula on its head, reinterpreting it to mean that the universe emanated out of divine nothingness.

Ayin is an antidote to idolatry. It forces us to surrender our comfortable, confining images; it melts them down... But how can we think or speak of God without images and conceptions? We can't. Even ayin is a conception. The images it evokes may be vast---a limitless ocean, the expanse of outer space---but they are images nonetheless. The value of nothingness is that it dissolves all images and conceptions, including itself.

Names and images of God enable us to approach the divine, but they can't quite get us there. They keep us at a safe distance. The words and pictures indicate the reality but cannot convey it. To experience the divine, we need to leave names and images aside. We must renounce the idolatry of worshiping the image, of worshiping the name. On the threshold, we are challenged to let go of words, to attune ourselves to
קוֹל דְּמָמָה דַקָּה, "the sound of sheer silence" (I Kings 19:12).

B'shalom,

Peter
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  #5  
Old 16-12-2010, 07:57 PM
mike3reynolds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
[*]Neshamah (נשמה): the higher soul, or "super-soul". This separates man from all other life-forms. It is related to the intellect, and allows man to enjoy and benefit from...
I am fascinated by this word. It only appears 24 times in the Old Testament, the first time is in Gen 2:7 where God breathes the breath of life into Adam. Seven times it is trasnlated as God's breath, but in Isa. 57:16 neshamah is translated as souls. It is also in reverse, Isa 57:16 talks about taking away life rather than imparting it, and it is the life of many, not just one.

Last edited by mike3reynolds : 16-12-2010 at 09:21 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2010, 03:40 AM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
To many of us at SF and probably world wide too, there is a distinct difference between I AM (Hinduism/Buddhism) and G-d (Judaism/Islam).

The two spiritual paths seem incompatible.
They are. They can only become compatible when both side leave the path.

Quote:
So what jesus was talking about is the integration of G-d and I AM, whereby ones "I" is an EQUAL part of the totality of G-d.
This doesn't make sense. Equal part, compared to what other part? And if you refer to the totality then it has no parts.
G-d needs to be transcended, not integrated, to get to I AM. I AM is way beyond G-d.
I AM also also nothing to do with "I". They are more like matter and ant-matter. The can exist while being apart, but coming together they annihilate each other. Meeting I AM results in I-destruction.
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  #7  
Old 07-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Honza Honza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pre-dawn
This doesn't make sense. Equal part, compared to what other part? And if you refer to the totality then it has no parts.
G-d needs to be transcended, not integrated, to get to I AM. I AM is way beyond G-d.

That is really pure speculation. How do you know that G-d has no parts? How do you know that I AM is way beyond G-d?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pre-dawn
I AM also also nothing to do with "I". They are more like matter and ant-matter. The can exist while being apart, but coming together they annihilate each other. Meeting I AM results in I-destruction.

I did not know that. I thought that I AM has got everything to do with the "I".
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:53 AM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I did not know that. I thought that I AM has got everything to do with the "I".
What on earth gave you that idea? Because there is an I in it?
I stands for 1 = One. There is no I in ONE.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:08 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Well what is YAWEH? What was said to Moses on the mountain when he asked "Who are you?" and the answer was "I am that I AM,"?
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2010, 02:03 PM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
Well what is YAWEH? What was said to Moses on the mountain when he asked "Who are you?" and the answer was "I am that I AM,"?
The answer is a tautology and effectively means "don't ask silly questions".
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