100 % proof

[CrystalSong]

When it's my time to go Stephenk I want to travel a bit slower than my Grandmother did, she only paused at a few places where there were striking sunsets on water, and once in a Golden City filled with beings with ancient golden cloths on which seemed to me like Sumerian gods and goddesses, there was much to see, but she traveled so fast that much was a barely registered blur. Now that I've been through some of those layers and have the energy signatures I should theoretically be able to return in meditation and experience them a bit more leisurely....spirit willing of course.
Once I had an OBE and made it only to the first layer, it was filled with beings who'd passed on but had stopped there, there was a very strong sense of timelessness and waiting there. I think it must be a lower etheric layer, a place where shaman and such go and help those spirits find their way higher. I've spoken with people who do that, help the lost go Home.
I'm told once we can access those realms consciously that it would be a kind and good thing to help those we find there to rise higher in the light/vibration.
It seems an intimidating prospect to me, but like you I have every reason to believe we are very much more than we are taught to think we are.
Life on earth is for most of us an act on a stage and we play impromptu parts thinking we write our own stories and there is no stage. Once we see behind the stage that all changes, we are freed from the delusion and realize we are no longer actors on the stage, but we can join the play whenever we wish for a cameo part. Once we see for the first time behind the stage there is no more fear - instead there is Wonder!
While bodily death isn't anything to rush towards it's also nothing to fear or try to delay. There is so much more out there and it's exciting and mind boggling. We've an eternity to explore it in many ways...so there is no rush. We have come here to 3D earth for a reason, for a learning that grows our spirit so we will be here until we've learned what we came to this classroom to learn.
For those needing 100% proof, you will get it in time. Until then learn who you really are - it's not what you think at all, in fact thinking won't get you there at all. =D

Originally Posted by StephenK

I easily understand the relief in being granted such knowing! :^) It seems to me that this is such a closely held secret in order that we intently "feel" limitation, that we intently feel vulnerably, that we intently feel a form of helplessness in such a way that is not commonalty available on "the other side". Were we to fully know the "punch line" to all this then the experience itself would be less poignant, less compelling...

For an eternal soul, such as we are, to experience limits must indeed be a rare, and a deeply sobering experience... this may intimately be the benefit of being as we currently are... bound to time, bound to restraint, bound to limitation, bound to a formation that condenses experience into a tight ordered package, a theme for each life, a beginning and end point.... were we to know too much of the overview to all this then the benefits would likely be compromised and the experience itself would lack the depth that it currently contains....

Thank you for your reply Stephen... I like your explanations. It certainly does make sense that we are bound to this physical world's restraints. But what a tease to be able to just get glimpses of the non-physical world. It seems today more people are venturing into seeing more of the non-physical world than ever before. It is a new frontier to be explored.

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

It seems an intimidating prospect to me, but like you I have every reason to believe we are very much more than we are taught to think we are.
Life on earth is for most of us an act on a stage and we play impromptu parts thinking we write our own stories and there is no stage. Once we see behind the stage that all changes, we are freed from the delusion and realize we are no longer actors on the stage, but we can join the play whenever we wish for a cameo part. Once we see for the first time behind the stage there is no more fear - instead there is Wonder!
While bodily death isn't anything to rush towards it's also nothing to fear or try to delay. There is so much more out there and it's exciting and mind boggling. We've an eternity to explore it in many ways...so there is no rush. We have come here to 3D earth for a reason, for a learning that grows our spirit so we will be here until we've learned what we came to this classroom to learn.
For those needing 100% proof, you will get it in time. Until then learn who you really are - it's not what you think at all, in fact thinking won't get you there at all. =D

Incredible post CrystalSong!

Each point you make is richly spoken from the obvious perspective of direct experience and observational introspection! I've come to see this ~direct experience~ aspect of spirituality as really the key to unlocking the conundrums that we encounter when trying to define our current place in all this. This layering of physical conditioning, that we were raised with, is so thick and so compelling that we keep trying to bounce around within those boundaries-of-conditioning in order to define what's going on in relation to that which isn't physical.

I've been wondering, for the better part of this lifetime, how many are being trained to graft both this current physical perspective, and that of our spiritual natures, into a more transparent appreciation of what's actually going on. And I've also been wondering if this isn't the way it's always been... have there always been those who straddle both this style of physical experience, with one foot still set-in-that-from-which-we come-from? It may be that the internet is helping those who are so inclined to compare notes? I've long felt that I was being "trained" for "something" and wondered how many others were being trained in a similar way.... or... has this level of training been ongoing all along, with those so inclined remaining quietly out of sight due to the thicker composition of those around them?

For once the boundaries start lifting via lucid dreaming, out of body experiences, or intuitive openings from within (exposing that which is hidden in an increasingly obvious way) then the hole spiritual thing becomes less theoretical and more and more tactile and interactive in an observable way.

However this may be... it's nice to know that there is a manor-of-experience that both respects what we're currently going through as physical passengers, as well as embracing that which is our more deeper experience as non-physical beings. And it's nice to know that there are others "out there" who are being educated from within in much the same way... :^)

Originally Posted by merrie

It seems today more people are venturing into seeing more of the non-physical world than ever before. It is a new frontier to be explored.

I agree Merrie :^)

And when I read your reply it triggered my ongoing thoughts as to what would have to happen for our culture-at-large to participate in exploring such frontiers?

I'm thinking that such an awaking, to be globally shared, will need ("need" is a funny word, but seems appropriate :^) to take place on a number of levels and may prove to be very awkward in the unfolding. It would need to include a new level of healthful living (better eating habits out of respect for the body in which we now find ourselves in) we'll need to dissolve much of the duality that we have historically found ourselves participating in (friends-enemies, male-female, good and bad people, the saved and the damned) and all this would need to happen in a way that's not corny or contrived.

Culturally speaking we're immersed in a frenzy of advertisement, sales, economy-driven priories that cater more toward vanity that it does toward emotionally-enlightened-interaction and holistically-balanced living.

And I'm not sure this stuff can be "taught". It seems to be something that must come from within... in the manor that's best suited for the idiosyncrasies of each individual.
And this also seems dependent on what our "souls would want". Our souls may prefer that this physical experience remain thick with ambiguity and contrasts... with a multitude of highs and lows, with pain and recovery, with challenge and resolve?

Since the "non-physical" is essentially our normal manor-of-being (continuum-speaking), with this physical experience being the oddity along the way, it may be that things are generally messy and overly-physically-focused for a very specific reason...? Sure seems that way, considering how much is continually being invested in daily keeping things clumsy...

So for each of us individually we may well move toward a more richer and less limited experience, but I'm not sure what's involved in bringing others along this path? .... and lastly, it may be, for some, that much of our work here is essentially done, and it's now time to play in a most unique way... in which case the conditioned, physicalised "norm", may no-longer fully apply... :^)

For the record... I love using the forum for therapy... we each have within us a notable collection of competing thoughts and it's nice to have a way in which these thoughts can be put to words and mutually shared and explored. This theme of "our place in this physical playhouse" is perhaps one of the most interesting aspects of our current experience. Getting a grip on the implications of this a good way to spend time and introspection.... As we Answer this one "effectively", (and in a way that's not purely "theoretical"), then you have something quite tangible and physically profound... and, from there, as we leap off the diving-board into the new things as they form, we may more-pleasantly do so with open eyes.... :^)

[CrystalSong]

Originally Posted by StephenK

Incredible post CrystalSong!

Each point you make is richly spoken from the obvious perspective of direct experience and observational introspection! I've come to see this ~direct experience~ aspect of spirituality as really the key to unlocking the conundrums that we encounter when trying to define our current place in all this. This layering of physical conditioning, that we were raised with, is so thick and so compelling that we keep trying to bounce around within those boundaries-of-conditioning in order to define what's going on in relation to that which isn't physical.

I've been wondering, for the better part of this lifetime, how many are being trained to graft both this current physical perspective, and that of our spiritual natures, into a more transparent appreciation of what's actually going on. And I've also been wondering if this isn't the way it's always been... have there always been those who straddle both this style of physical experience, with one foot still set-in-that-from-which-we come-from? It may be that the internet is helping those who are so inclined to compare notes? I've long felt that I was being "trained" for "something" and wondered how many others were being trained in a similar way.... or... has this level of training been ongoing all along, with those so inclined remaining quietly out of sight due to the thicker composition of those around them?

For once the boundaries start lifting via lucid dreaming, out of body experiences, or intuitive openings from within (exposing that which is hidden in an increasingly obvious way) then the hole spiritual thing becomes less theoretical and more and more tactile and interactive in an observable way.

However this may be... it's nice to know that there is a manor-of-experience that both respects what we're currently going through as physical passengers, as well as embracing that which is our more deeper experience as non-physical beings. And it's nice to know that there are others "out there" who are being educated from within in much the same way... :^)

StephenK, currently I'm being lead by Spirit on a Journey, it is both internal and overland and for the moment I dwell where led until led to another place. Many stops are 6 weeks in length. At one of these stops I met a man who after his awakening dug deeply into all works and theory developed in the last 100 years into the nature of humans, particularly the current thought of the schools of psychology. In it he discovered that at any one time no more than 10% of the worlds population was in a state of awakening.
Imagine how difficult it would be to find one another in the world pre-internet?! We could only be led to one another by Spirit. Yet now we have another way to access and find one another - the ether net village!
We are blessed in this age to be sure. =D

Having said that tho, I often still feel a bit alone as sometimes the paths I trod seem so untraveled by others and so I feel reluctant even in a spiritual forum to discuss that which I experience often in my seeking for Truth and knowledge of That Which Is.

Twice in just the last two week I have run into people who have flat out said "We do not talk about our peak experiences". Once was at an Ashram dedicated to Babaji and the other someone practicing Zen Buddhism.
I can not understand this. To not discuss it only increases one's sense of isolation. Isolation is often the bane of the mystic. Why would people not discuss their experiences with their brethren? To be able to discus it helps to ground it into the earth plane.

Because the more profound expereinces seem to not be discussed either in these on-line forums or among adherents to particular paths, I must delve into what little documents I can find from among the Tibetan Monks recordings. When one has certain experiences it is validating to find others have had them too. It removes potential fear from experiencing more and going deeper into the Mystery.

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

StephenK, currently I'm being lead by Spirit on a Journey, it is both internal and overland and for the moment I dwell where led until led to another place. Many stops are 6 weeks in length. At one of these stops I met a man who after his awakening dug deeply into all works and theory developed in the last 100 years into the nature of humans, particularly the current thought of the schools of psychology. In it he discovered that at any one time no more than 10% of the worlds population was in a state of awakening.
Imagine how difficult it would be to find one another in the world pre-internet?! We could only be led to one another by Spirit. Yet now we have another way to access and find one another - the ether net village!
We are blessed in this age to be sure. =D

I completely believe the 10% thing....! It becomes obvious once we break-out into the open and begin discussing what we know among family, friends and strangers... that which is something of a no-brainer to us tends to send others for a loop... almost frightens them to talk about such on even the simplest of terms and imagery... for the longest time I thought it was just me... so I lucid dream a lot, that must be weird, I've seen into the future quit clearly and several times, (how come everyone doesn't do that?) I ~clearly~ met my wife and saw my kids grown-up in dreams long before I met my wife in the physical... saw a friend die and head firmly toward the other side... sat with my dogs while out-of-body ofter their passing... and that's just the simple stuff... try and bring any of this up with the folks sitting next to you on a busy train, at work, in the grocery store... and god help you if you brought it up at church... Why does a manor of experience that seems so natural to us, fall so completely out of sync with most all those around us?

And this thing with those who utter the words "We do not talk about our peak experiences" shame on them... what are they hiding behind? Why do they have to shape an experience that needs walled-off protection from the curious thoughts of others who are genuine explorers on this physical ride?

Blank stares... I'm so used to seeing those on the face of others, those who desperately need to reboot what it is they're taking for normal. People who have trapped themselves in repetitive loops of unsatisfying experiences and will remain there for years, if not a lifetime... For awhile I had something of a savior complex... I felt that since I knew "something" I needed to help others out of these self-made perceptual conundrums... that's kind of a waste of time... in order to do so you have to dive deep into how they've created what they have, and often you'll become the now seat of their problems... it seems the more you dedicate yourself to helping another the thicker and less productive it gets... so now I simply let it go... if they defined what they did and they defined it for a reason then it's "my bad" for trying to change that... much easier to live with... :^)

You can see I have deep grips over this whole thing... it all started when I was around 10 years old, ramped-up heavily in my later teens, and only in the last 10 years or so have I been able to partly put all this into some workable perspective... There is the life that we "think" it is, and then there's something else altogether... most (90%?) seem to be mesmerized by the former....

Now, that being said (I enjoy a good rant! :^) it thus seemed that my challenge in all this was/is in how to blend the two.... how to live two entirely different lives where the ~potent~ one is hidden and the superficial version becomes the daily norm.... this particular challenge is actually kinda fun.... I honestly don't need to share this stuff with anyone other than my own choosing... that was freeing.... and then the thing of simplifying my connection to things in such a way that relieved all the pressure... I am me, they are them, I do what I do, they do what they feel they must... kinda live-and-let-live, even though much of the time what we're looking at within others seems counter-intuitive, if not down-right repugnant at times....

Sometimes the journey is not about going somewhere, but in finding oneself where we stand... and, by necessity, daily forgiving others for being so stupid... for goodness... what a dumb batch of folks we often find ourselves steadily immersed in....

Drats... and I had planed on ending this post on a positive note... :^)

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by paulie74

Hello everyone!

My name is Paul (39, from Cardiff, wales) and I've just recently joined this group and I hope to be able to converse with many of you about all things spiritual in the near future.

I would just like to ask if anyone on here has had conclusive proof of life after death, etc. I don't mean just that odd, spine-tingling feeling, or a half-heard whisper, but actual crystal-clear, not-a-shadow-of-a-doubt proof.

I ask as I, myself, used to experience many strange things as a teen and young man, but in the end I really could not handle the power of it and begged for 'them' to leave me alone. In the end that's exactly what happened. But, since that day to this, I have a deep, dark void within me, and I am always searching. I guess I have become very cynical over the years, although I know what I experienced when I was younger happened; I suppose I just find it so hard to accept now, and I would like to be able to feel the joy of spiritual faith again, but I don't know if I still can...

Anyway, apologies for my rambling. So does anyone have anything they feel is real proof? I would be grateful for any answers on personal experiences.

Warmth and peace to all of you.

I don't know about proof. I know there is evidence. But then who is decide what is proof and what is not. It is up to the individual to decide what is true or not. If a thousand scientist of the highest caliber were to declare something as to true. Would I then simple accept this, allowing them to decide what is true or untrue for me?

For me at least there is not such a thing as proof. There is only evidence. Is the sun going to rise in the morning? Well according to my experience, the sun has rose every morning for the last forty years. I have read about the sun, I know about the sun in my own experience so I believe it will rise in the morning. Do I know this?

There is only evidence. There comes a point when there is so much evidence that something is, so that it pretty much is. Yet no matter how much evidence there is of something. It merely means that the chance of it not being so is so small as not to matter. If you get my drift.

There has been so much evidence. I remember reading a book once about a person that channeled a spirit which wrote a book. The medium was just an ordinary woman. She agreed to be tested scientifically. The scientist thought that she must have had some education and was duping them. So the spirit told her to tell them that she would write a book backwards, starting from the end. She did and they still muttered that it must be some kind of fluke. So she wrote two other books simultaneously both backwards, one with her left hand and one with her right, from end to the beginning. I mean how much proof does a person need?

When you look at way the psychologists in the same era were doing, the very slip shod way they were going about things. Yet eventually psychology became regarded as a science! I mean there is so much evidence it is unreal. Yet to try and find these books of the evidence is not an easy task. It seems that these books have been buried in convenient (for scientists) or inconvenient places. (By the way I would love to know about the woman I am talking about. Perhaps there is a book or books somewhere. There is a good website about Pearl Curran who channeled Patience Worth. She channeled Patience Worth and wrote some amazing books and poems)

But it doesn't matter what you read. It will be all second hand information. Why settle for second hand information when you can access the real first hand experience. After first hand information and experience is better than anything. This is exactly what those in the Spirit world do. They aid individuals in this world to find the truth and experience the truth. Just ask honestly and they will show you. Just when you ask, truly ask for the truth. Many people ask for such a truth but they aren't really asking. Instead they ask with a preconceived idea of what the truth is. Instead, ask openly without any preconceptions.

Peace.

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by StephenK

I completely believe the 10% thing....! It becomes obvious once we break-out into the open and begin discussing what we know among family, friends and strangers... that which is something of a no-brainer to us tends to send others for a loop... almost frightens them to talk about such on even the simplest of terms and imagery... for the longest time I thought it was just me... so I lucid dream a lot, that must be weird, I've seen into the future quit clearly and several times, (how come everyone doesn't do that?) I ~clearly~ met my wife and saw my kids grown-up in dreams long before I met my wife in the physical... saw a friend die and head firmly toward the other side... sat with my dogs while out-of-body ofter their passing... and that's just the simple stuff... try and bring any of this up with the folks sitting next to you on a busy train, at work, in the grocery store... and god help you if you brought it up at church... Why does a manor of experience that seems so natural to us, fall so completely out of sync with most all those around us?

And this thing with those who utter the words "We do not talk about our peak experiences" shame on them... what are they hiding behind? Why do they have to shape an experience that needs walled-off protection from the curious thoughts of others who are genuine explorers on this physical ride?

Blank stares... I'm so used to seeing those on the face of others, those who desperately need to reboot what it is they're taking for normal. People who have trapped themselves in repetitive loops of unsatisfying experiences and will remain there for years, if not a lifetime... For awhile I had something of a savior complex... I felt that since I knew "something" I needed to help others out of these self-made perceptual conundrums... that's kind of a waste of time... in order to do so you have to dive deep into how they've created what they have, and often you'll become the now seat of their problems... it seems the more you dedicate yourself to helping another the thicker and less productive it gets... so now I simply let it go... if they defined what they did and they defined it for a reason then it's "my bad" for trying to change that... much easier to live with... :^)

You can see I have deep grips over this whole thing... it all started when I was around 10 years old, ramped-up heavily in my later teens, and only in the last 10 years or so have I been able to partly put all this into some workable perspective... There is the life that we "think" it is, and then there's something else altogether... most (90%?) seem to be mesmerized by the former....

Now, that being said (I enjoy a good rant! :^) it thus seemed that my challenge in all this was/is in how to blend the two.... how to live two entirely different lives where the ~potent~ one is hidden and the superficial version becomes the daily norm.... this particular challenge is actually kinda fun.... I honestly don't need to share this stuff with anyone other than my own choosing... that was freeing.... and then the thing of simplifying my connection to things in such a way that relieved all the pressure... I am me, they are them, I do what I do, they do what they feel they must... kinda live-and-let-live, even though much of the time what we're looking at within others seems counter-intuitive, if not down-right repugnant at times....

Sometimes the journey is not about going somewhere, but in finding oneself where we stand... and, by necessity, daily forgiving others for being so stupid... for goodness... what a dumb batch of folks we often find ourselves steadily immersed in....

Drats... and I had planed on ending this post on a positive note... :^)

I too have had similar experiences. I know longer attach myself to what others think or believe. I just be true to myself and what I know.

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by StephenK

I completely believe the 10% thing....! It becomes obvious once we break-out into the open and begin discussing what we know among family, friends and strangers... that which is something of a no-brainer to us tends to send others for a loop... almost frightens them to talk about such on even the simplest of terms and imagery... for the longest time I thought it was just me... so I lucid dream a lot, that must be weird, I've seen into the future quit clearly and several times, (how come everyone doesn't do that?) I ~clearly~ met my wife and saw my kids grown-up in dreams long before I met my wife in the physical... saw a friend die and head firmly toward the other side... sat with my dogs while out-of-body ofter their passing... and that's just the simple stuff... try and bring any of this up with the folks sitting next to you on a busy train, at work, in the grocery store... and god help you if you brought it up at church... Why does a manor of experience that seems so natural to us, fall so completely out of sync with most all those around us?

And this thing with those who utter the words "We do not talk about our peak experiences" shame on them... what are they hiding behind? Why do they have to shape an experience that needs walled-off protection from the curious thoughts of others who are genuine explorers on this physical ride?

Blank stares... I'm so used to seeing those on the face of others, those who desperately need to reboot what it is they're taking for normal. People who have trapped themselves in repetitive loops of unsatisfying experiences and will remain there for years, if not a lifetime... For awhile I had something of a savior complex... I felt that since I knew "something" I needed to help others out of these self-made perceptual conundrums... that's kind of a waste of time... in order to do so you have to dive deep into how they've created what they have, and often you'll become the now seat of their problems... it seems the more you dedicate yourself to helping another the thicker and less productive it gets... so now I simply let it go... if they defined what they did and they defined it for a reason then it's "my bad" for trying to change that... much easier to live with... :^)

You can see I have deep grips over this whole thing... it all started when I was around 10 years old, ramped-up heavily in my later teens, and only in the last 10 years or so have I been able to partly put all this into some workable perspective... There is the life that we "think" it is, and then there's something else altogether... most (90%?) seem to be mesmerized by the former....

Now, that being said (I enjoy a good rant! :^) it thus seemed that my challenge in all this was/is in how to blend the two.... how to live two entirely different lives where the ~potent~ one is hidden and the superficial version becomes the daily norm.... this particular challenge is actually kinda fun.... I honestly don't need to share this stuff with anyone other than my own choosing... that was freeing.... and then the thing of simplifying my connection to things in such a way that relieved all the pressure... I am me, they are them, I do what I do, they do what they feel they must... kinda live-and-let-live, even though much of the time what we're looking at within others seems counter-intuitive, if not down-right repugnant at times....

Sometimes the journey is not about going somewhere, but in finding oneself where we stand... and, by necessity, daily forgiving others for being so stupid... for goodness... what a dumb batch of folks we often find ourselves steadily immersed in....

Drats... and I had planed on ending this post on a positive note... :^)

To be honest your post spoke so truly for me. I have had experiences like what you speak about. When I was a child I seen things before they happened. Sometimes minutes before. Sometimes years. I even seen my own future. I am still experiencing things, it just keeps getting better and better. What a wonderful thing it would be if the enlightened of this website worked together to collate our experiences together and write a book about it. All the money could go to keeping this website going.

I have been having communications have been writing them down. I have been writing a novel too. I started writing down my communications about the same time I started writing my Novel. Guess what I found? For every page of my novel I was writing about five pages of my communications. Then I had to go over the words of the novel ten times just to make sure the punctuation was right. Then another ten times just to catch the bits I missed before. But with the communications I hardly had to touch it at all. most time I caught all the errors as I wrote it.

From what I have witnessed in the communications is mind blowing. I mean I take it as a given now. But even if I were to tell some of the stuff to mediums I wouldn't be surprised if they raised an eyebrow in disbelief. This whole universe and the self is just amazing.

Peace, and keep on shinning!