Nonduality and "The Guru".

[jonesboy]

Similar but the details are different.

It is those differences in an energy practice that makes all the difference.

I also have a very good friend who is a kriya yoga lineage teacher that you can talk to who could explain the differences if you would like.

Also, because you are finding things close to it if you don’t have an energy practice before meditation give it a shot for a week and see what you notice :)

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Actually it hasn't been practiced for thousands of years or else you would provide a link to it as your proof.

Instead as always your first instinct is to disparage a thing.

Internal fire has been posted at the Tao Bums for a long time. That is a very serious site with very serous teachers and practitioners from many traditions.
I
None of them has ever said it is a rip off. They have said it is similar to some practices but never that it is a rip off.



If someone had bothered to read slowly.

Disclaimer - the below practice is usually done for the first time with the energetic support of a lineage teacher.

I thank you for your concern that the wording may discourage someone from trying out this very good energy practice.

If anyone has any questions about it please let me know and please don't be discouraged by the word Usually.

I have pointed out to you, it is Qigong...... under a different name, there are thousands of links you can find yourself, to many for me to post

All energy practises are based on the same principle, universal energy. You visualize collecting the energy from heaven and earth and use it internally. You will have seen pictures of Bodhidharma doing this practise, he is usually standing but it can be done sitting down. The first stance in Qigong is called ' Wu Chi '.. primordial energy, it is the most important stance in any form, it can be used on it's own or part of a form.
It has been around for thousands of years but labeled differently as Jeff has done. Harness primordial energy, move it around your meridians etc etc, different names for the same practise.

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

These seem similar, there must be many more but this was a very quick search:

Exactly, different names from different traditions but they are all about visualising harnessing universal energy, these practises have been used for thousands of years...

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Exactly, different names from different traditions but they are all about visualising harnessing universal energy, these practises have been used for thousands of years...

Yes, energy practices are a good thing.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

I have pointed out to you, it is Qigong...... under a different name, there are thousands of links you can find yourself, to many for me to post

All energy practises are based on the same principle, universal energy. You visualize collecting the energy from heaven and earth and use it internally. You will have seen pictures of Bodhidharma doing this practise, he is usually standing but it can be done sitting down. The first stance in Qigong is called ' Wu Chi '.. primordial energy, it is the most important stance in any form, it can be used on it's own or part of a form.
It has been around for thousands of years but labeled differently as Jeff has done. Harness primordial energy, move it around your meridians etc etc, different names for the same practise.

Hi sky,

I am really not sure if you just like to following me from thread to thread disagreeing with everything i say or if you are just a really bad Qi Qong teacher.

It is not a Qi Gong technique, not every energy practice is a Qi Qong technique.

Also every change from sitting to standing to the way you sit has an impact on the practice and the energy.

For those not familiar with energy practices and how a posture or a movement can change the practice let me explain.

When i first started out I did AYP.

They have an pranayama that has you with your breath move the energy from the root to the 3rd eye and back down again, over and over. Very similar to Kriya Yoga.

Once one has become stable at that practice they then add Mulabandha.

With mulabandha, we sit in pranayama like we always do. As we do, we lightly flex our anal sphincter muscle and hold it. That is, lightly. It is barely beyond the intention into the physical sensation. What we want to do is develop the habit of holding this light flex of the anal sphincter throughout our pranayama session. At the same time, while we do this, we lightly flex and pull up above the flexed anal sphincter, through the pelvis, and into our lower belly. There will be little physical movement, just a little beyond the intention, just enough to create a physical habit with. Later on, just the slightest intention will be enough to send sexual energy flying upward. What we are doing now is beginning the development of a new sensitivity in the pelvic region. As discussed in earlier lessons, pranayama draws the prana up from the pelvis through a biological process having to do with the gentle restraint of oxygen in the body. We are now helping that rising prana with some direct stimulation, amplifying its upward flow.

Mulabandha is a physical maneuver that quickly becomes a habit. In the beginning, our attention will be drawn to the sexual sensations it produces. It will be distracting for a while. That is normal. The aroused sexual energy may want to go down as much as up at first. That is normal too. We just continue with our pranayama practice as always, easily favoring our spinal breathing. This brings the energy up and down in our spinal nerve. In time, we will feel pleasurable sensations higher up, and the event of sexual energy going down during pranayama will become a rarity, and, eventually, never.

As that new movement and the changes from this addition become stable you then add another movement to your pranayama practice, Sambhavi.

which is applying direct stimulation near the lower end of the spinal nerve (sushumna) to enliven sexual energy upward. Now we are going to the top end of the spinal nerve and begin to make a connection there.

The second component of sambhavi is a physical raising of the eyes toward the point where the furrowing is happening at the point between the eyebrows. The sensation of furrowing at the point between the eyebrows is where the eyes will go. This will involve some raising and some centering of the eyes. We keep the eyes comfortably closed as we do it. We don't force the eyes. In the beginning, they may not go as far up as we would like. That is okay. Do not force them. Just let them gravitate naturally toward the sensation of furrowing at the point between the eyebrows. Again, it is a subtle physical habit we want to cultivate. Once the habit in place, the attention is free for spinal breathing. All of pranayama is physical habit, except for the attention going very simply up and down the spinal nerve with the breath. As we become adept at it, everything will be happening automatically, with our attention completely free to be easily going up and down inside the spinal nerve, which will be transforming before our inner sight.

As we do these two things simultaneously, the slight furrowing of the center of the brow and the raising and centering of the eyes to that point between the eyebrows, we continue all the other elements of pranayama just as before. It should be pointed out that as the attention goes up and down in the spinal nerve with the breath, the eyes remain aimed up toward the point between the eyebrows. We are not looking through our eyes with our attention. Our attention is going up and down in the spinal nerve. We do not try and look at the point between the eyebrows with the attention through the physical eyes. The eyes are physically going there, but our attention is going up and down in the spinal nerve. In fact, our physical eyes aren't doing anything other than muscular. When they are going up to the point between the eyebrows, the eyes are physically stimulating the spinal nerve all the way back through the brain and all the way down through the spine to the perineum. We are using our eyes in a physical way to awaken the spinal nerve. Meanwhile, our vision (attention) is in and through the spinal nerve, easily going up and down inside. It is a new kind of seeing we are beginning, an inner seeing.

Next and what was for a very long time much to powerful for me was changing how one sits. Moving from just sitting cross legged to sitting in siddhasana. The energy from that little change would overload me.. aka was to powerful and cause emotional upset from the energy hitting obstructions. It took me a long time to get past that.

Here is a thread from when i had just started spiritual practices doing these techniques and how they impacted me.

https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....chTerms=newbie

Every movement, every change has an impact on the practice and its effectiveness as well as what it is working within us.

So please stop with the generalities and the broad proclamations just because the name is Primordial doesn't make it a Qi Qong technique and as you can see, sitting or standing and how one sits and stands can make a difference.

As you should know as a Qi Qong teacher.

As we all can see energy practices can get deep and detailed in the movements.

I posted Internal Fire because i know it is an effective, safe energy technique that can improves one spiritual practice. It has been tested many times by many people with positive results.

Just really trying to help people is all i was attempting to do.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi sky,

I am really not sure if you just like to following me from thread to thread disagreeing with everything i say or if you are just a really bad Qi Qong teacher.

It is not a Qi Gong technique, not every energy practice is a Qi Qong technique.

Also every change from sitting to standing to the way you sit has an impact on the practice and the energy.

For those not familiar with energy practices and how a posture or a movement can change the practice let me explain.

When i first started out I did AYP.

They have an pranayama that has you with your breath move the energy from the root to the 3rd eye and back down again, over and over. Very similar to Kriya Yoga.

Once one has become stable at that practice they then add Mulabandha.



As that new movement and the changes from this addition become stable you then add another movement to your pranayama practice, Sambhavi.



Next and what was for a very long time much to powerful for me was changing how one sits. Moving from just sitting cross legged to sitting in siddhasana. The energy from that little change would overload me.. aka was to powerful and cause emotional upset from the energy hitting obstructions. It took me a long time to get past that.

Here is a thread from when i had just started spiritual practices doing these techniques and how they impacted me.

https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....chTerms=newbie

Every movement, every change has an impact on the practice and its effectiveness as well as what it is working within us.

So please stop with the generalities and the broad proclamations just because the name is Primordial doesn't make it a Qi Qong technique and as you can see, sitting or standing and how one sits and stands can make a difference.

As you should know as a Qi Qong teacher.

When you know more about Qigong come back and we will discuss it more

[sentient]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Kundalini is a charged word for many.

In truth kundalini is the initial awakening to energy. For many they get trapped in the idea that it is just a bunch of energy at the base waiting to awaken one to enlightenment.

Kundalini in the beginning is again the initial awakening to energy but in truth it is Universal Consciousness.

It just depends on what depth one is looking at it from :)

Ok.
Found “Kashmir Shaivism” on the net and a youtube video which also talks about energy and I thought it was rather good:
“Ascend of Shakti vs descend of Grace”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYZ64RgjRo

From 12:44 to 15:36 he talks about his experience of energy descending down the crown chakra (and him seeing the face of his guru Maharishi).

[Or one could talk about it in terms of (a felt sense) thundercloud hovering about (invitation/calling).
When thunder is heard it shifts one to awakening.
Then when the thundercloud comes right above you and engulfs you - the lightning strikes (initiation)].


Kashmir Shaivism doesn’t seem to talk about raising the Windhorse though as a way of preparing-the-body-mind/summoning-the-spirit.

[jonesboy]

Here is a link to a masterpiece called the Triadic Heart of Siva.

http://www.laurelhovde.com/Design/Th...rt-of-Siva.pdf

Also, here are many links about ks here.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=117448

Hope these links help.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Similar but the details are different.

It is those differences in an energy practice that makes all the difference.

I also have a very good friend who is a kriya yoga lineage teacher that you can talk to who could explain the differences if you would like.

Also, because you are finding things close to it if you don’t have an energy practice before meditation give it a shot for a week and see what you notice :)

Hi Jonesboy, I think sky is probably quite correct about this technique being part of qigong, for instance see under the sub heading Bringing in Heaven and Earth Energy halfway down the page in this Qi Gong link http://www.1paradigm.org/qigong.html

This technique draws on the existence of Heaven (Sky) energy and Earth energy. The earth contributes the material substance from which out bodies are composed and the energy which holds it together. The heavens, void, or infinite contributes the energy that is the substance of our Soul and Spirit. These two energies form energy reservoirs which can be accessed and blended into our own energy fields.

(1) Stand with your feet shoulder width apart, your pelvis tipped forward, your back straight and your shoulders, hips and ankles aligned in a vertical straight line. Place your tongue against the roof of your mouth and your hands together in the prayer position.

(3) To bring in earth energy, visualize energy flowing up from the earth along the outer part of your legs and entering into your microcosmic circuit. (etc etc)

(7) To bring in cosmic energy, visualize energy flowing down from the infinite universe into your microcosmic circuit through the top of your head. (etc etc)

[FallingLeaves]

on thinking yourself 'all that' and on being 'insecure': yeah that is one of the things we have to work through, not thinking ourselves all that special for whatever comes up. Gurus have to do that too and it takes them every bit as much effort. But they aren't in an environment where people heckle them as part of the process, so, we are learning something they aren't. As an example of one of many things that are apparently outside of your understanding?

But on your favorite topic of following gurus, there are a lot of limitations if you are a guru. And then after you devote your life to the practices you find you have put yourself in a box. Same as everyone else your life practices have put you in a box. It is just that with your status of 'guru' your box looks different than the 'normal' boxes that the majority of people have.

Maybe in some ways it is more spacious and comfortable. But it is a box nonetheless. And because of it, you'll go on to die just like the rest of us.

What is the point?

Personally that path isn't for me even if everyone is going to sit here and deride me for not playing follow the leader the way everyone tells me is best.

Ok so I'm wasting my life away because I've been kicked in the shins so many times I couldn't play by stupid meaningless rules that only lead to ruin even though I WANT to, and everyone knows you just cannot live like that. Everyone knows that you CANNOT deny the status quo at any price and I'm a fool for not just being able to just buy into it sight unseen the way everyone else seems to. Ok so I'm a fool and I'm willful and I'm just plain wasting my life away. Your point is?????