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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

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  #1  
Old 13-01-2006, 02:53 PM
DASA
Posts: n/a
 
Origin and Conclusion of the Universe?

Modern science (in it's current popular view) states that existence as we know it was created from a singularity at the begginning of time called the 'Big Bang', from which all life as we know it has originated. From the force of the Big Bang our universe will continue to expand like a ballon up to a point and then either 1) collapse under it's own gravity and form a 'Big Crunch' or 2) continue to expand for infinity. If it were to collapse on itself then theoretically it may be the final 'Big Cruch' that in turn causes another 'Big Bang', thus the universe starts all over again and continues like this for infinity.

Ancient Vedic science states that the Primeval 'Maha-Vishnu' lies on the 'causal ocean' and as he exhales, countless numbers of universes are created from the pores in His skin. Then as He inhales, they are brough back into His body and become unmanifest again untill the time of His next outward breath. Each breath is equivalent to many billions of years according to our calculation.

The first living being created in each universe in called 'Brahma' and he is given the task of creating a diversity of life and environments within that particular universe. According to people's karma from the last universe they are put into appropriate bodies in the new one, anything from being Brahma themselves to being a small ant, and the cycle continues for infinity. More purified souls are given the task of stewardship over the existence in a similar fashion to Brahma, and are known as 'devas' but none have his specific powers.

Maha-Vishnu originates from The Supreme Personality of Godhead - Krishna, who's abode is beyond this material world. It is said that the material universes exist in a small space of an infinite and eternal 'spiritual sky', known as 'Vaikuntha' in the ancient texts. The spiritual sky, Vaikuntha, is beyond our material conceptions being filled with eternity, knowledge and bliss. In Vaikuntha it is said that 'time is conspicuous by it's absence' and thus there is no creation or dissolution. It is not destroyed when the material universes become unmanifest, but stays as it is.

All souls in this material world have their heritage in the spiritual sky, but only by re-awakening one's relationship with the Supreme Person can we return to the eternal abode. Once our original relationship is re-awakened then we actually enter into 'Vaikuntha', even while we are still linked to our physical body on the earth planet.

It seems to me that after many years of research we may just be begginning to discover the first part of this story. Does it make sense that an ancient 'aboriginal' people could create a philosophy of creation involving time scales into billions of years, and knowledge of other planets and alternate universes? Or could it be that they knew a lot of things that we don't?

Any views on origins of creation? - Please post here.

Peace, Love & Hare Krishna,

Das
  #2  
Old 17-01-2006, 03:13 AM
howiemac
Posts: n/a
 
Excellent work DASA - you have put a lot of big things very succinctly...

Yes it seems like science is slowly feeling its way back to the ancient philosophy of the universe being like a breathing being - expand, contract, expand, contract - presumably this breathing being has its own life / death / rebirth cycle and so on to eternity/infinity. I go with the ancients - everything is cyclical - there is no end and no beginning, it just loops round - this is the only fathomable explanation of eternity and infinity - if you go far enough you come back to where you are now - the future is the past (and vice versa) - hence the ancient symbols for these things of the circle and the figure eight, the serpent consuming its own tail, etc.

Quote:
All souls in this material world have their heritage in the spiritual sky, but only by re-awakening one's relationship with the Supreme Person can we return to the eternal abode. Once our original relationship is re-awakened then we actually enter into 'Vaikuntha', even while we are still linked to our physical body on the earth planet.
absolutely spot on :) This to me is the destination of our spiritual journey here on Earth - the top of the mountain to which all spiritual paths lead.... We get there through re-awakening our relationship with the supreme.. it takes the power and purity of God to liberate us from our chains of bondage to matter, to strip way the veil of illusion we have learned to hide behind, to act as catalyst to enlighten us....

The experience of being a soul in the 'spiritual sky' is of being beyond time and space - on a different plane or dimension to the physical universe. So concepts of eternity and infinity are not relevant. Neither are death or birth, origin or destination. These things are only relevant in the physical universe.

I believe that the ancients were much more in tune with the true realities of time, space, matter, spirit, the universe, etc, than we are - but their understanding was intuitive - we have more 'knowledge' but are blinded by our own rationality which blocks our intuition.

Religion rejects materialism - "matter doesn't matter" - and science rejects spirituality because it cannot be proven using material instruments.... when science and spirituality learn to embrace each other there will be quantum leaps in scientific knowledge 8)
  #3  
Old 17-01-2006, 04:30 PM
DASA
Posts: n/a
 
Re: Reply

"we have more 'knowledge' but are blinded by our own rationality which blocks our intuition. "

- I like that point you make. There is an information overload in society at the moment, but often wisdom seems lacking.


"Religion rejects materialism - "matter doesn't matter" - and science rejects spirituality because it cannot be proven using material instruments.... when science and spirituality learn to embrace each other there will be quantum leaps in scientific knowledge."

Modern day Einstein's & Newton's ... I hope it happens sometime soon.

Thanks Howiemac

Gouranga !!
:-)
  #4  
Old 14-08-2006, 03:02 AM
8-infinite-8
Posts: n/a
 
I don't think the universe ever originated, because it was already something before there was anything anyway, so this is all I'm gona say :).
Even if there were nothing, there would still be something.
For example: Silence has always existed & will always exist, but what created silence? It is beyond human comprehension so I'm not even gona try anything beyond that :)

namaste :)
  #5  
Old 14-08-2006, 03:10 AM
Glorymist
Posts: n/a
 
8-infinite-8 - -

Silence wasn't created. It exists.
  #6  
Old 14-08-2006, 04:05 AM
8-infinite-8
Posts: n/a
 
Everything in existence has it's purpose therefore has been created ultimately, in my opinion, somehow, i dont know how, but that's what i recon.
There is no right & wrong because even you my friend don't know why we exist. Philosophy, spirituality, meta-physics holds no fact's, it is all theoretical & up for interpretation without evidence.
From the human perspective silence just exists, but how do you know that silence to us, is'nt music to God?. Our perceptions are limited, that's why i said that it is beyond the comprehension of our human minds, meaning that all we can do is philosiphize, & beleive in what feels right for us & contemplate the opinions of others as you would expect them to contemplate yours.
All of what I say is just another way of looking at it, If you dont know why you exist, then you dont know much at all realistically, In my opinion & neither do I
  #7  
Old 14-08-2006, 04:15 AM
kundalini
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-infinite-8
Everything in existence has it's purpose therefore has been created ultimately, in my opinion, somehow, i dont know how, but that's what i recon.
There is no right & wrong because even you my friend don't know why we exist. Philosophy, spirituality, meta-physics holds no fact's, it is all theoretical & up for interpretation without evidence.
From the human perspective silence just exists, but how do you know that silence to us, is'nt music to God?. Our perceptions are limited, that's why i said that it is beyond the comprehension of our human minds, meaning that all we can do is philosiphize, & beleive in what feels right for us & contemplate the opinions of others as you would expect them to contemplate yours.
All of what I say is just another way of looking at it, If you dont know why you exist, then you dont know much at all realistically, In my opinion & neither do I

Interesting answer.

I must comment on one thing though. The reason we humans don't know any thing is because we keep telling ourselves we do not know anything, therefore how are we supposed to know anything? To be honest, we humans know a lot AND a little, it is all relative really.

Humans will keep telling themselves that their perceptions are limited and so they will be until we know that we know that our perceptions are unlimited.

It is true that we philospohise and discuss facts and it is all 'without' evidence but at the end of the day what counts is what you believe. The reason for discussing beliefs is that it is all leading upto us recognising ourselves for what we are. IMO, we should always KNOW. Confusion will reign without KNOWING. Never limit yourself. Think unlimited perspective, unlimited senses and KNOW that you are balanced in your vision whilst doing this.
  #8  
Old 14-08-2006, 05:00 AM
8-infinite-8
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kundalini
Humans will keep telling themselves that their perceptions are limited and so they will be until we know that we know that our perceptions are unlimited.

Good point, & I totally agree that what we tell ourselves manifest's, but I cannot help think that we are somehow meant to be limited to a degree.
I guess it depends on your beliefs on the after life & your beliefs in general really.
Perhaps that is why Earth exists, a school for the recognition & strengthening of your own truth, therefore you must be blinded first in order to apreciate true vision.
We are a very young race of 32,000 years compared to say the atlantians who lived aparently for 480,000 years. I think in terms of evolution we're also limited to information by all the negative energy in the world.
I agree that we are the ones that limit ourselves, but i think it's also the collective state of consciousness that the world is in, & that in which we have been subjected to that may take generations to improve. Maybe it's just not meant to be any better at the moment who knows, interesting though.
Blessings :)
  #9  
Old 14-08-2006, 08:22 AM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: leicester
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I like the way this thread is going guys and gals,
I have struggled with the whole, `We actually know nothing ` concept for years.
1) We are told by classic eastern philosophy thAT THIS WORLD IS AN ILLUSION (MAYA). (oops pressed the caps key by mistake, sorry folks , I`m not making any resounding statement here, just couldn`t be bothered to delete and re type, Do you guys ever get that???)

2) For the most part those of us who discuss spiritual matters here have (and I apologise to those of you that have definite serious undeniable experiences) very few tangible definite experiences so our discussions are really just philosophical debates, that take place through the illusion of maya. It makes me laugh sometimes when people get upset or worked up because their `Point of view` is attcked or criticised by another person, when in truth non of us no any bloody thing really!!!

Last edited by peteyzen : 14-08-2006 at 08:26 AM.
  #10  
Old 14-08-2006, 08:26 AM
kundalini
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-infinite-8
Good point, & I totally agree that what we tell ourselves manifest's, but I cannot help think that we are somehow meant to be limited to a degree.
I guess it depends on your beliefs on the after life & your beliefs in general really.
Perhaps that is why Earth exists, a school for the recognition & strengthening of your own truth, therefore you must be blinded first in order to apreciate true vision.
We are a very young race of 32,000 years compared to say the atlantians who lived aparently for 480,000 years. I think in terms of evolution we're also limited to information by all the negative energy in the world.
I agree that we are the ones that limit ourselves, but i think it's also the collective state of consciousness that the world is in, & that in which we have been subjected to that may take generations to improve. Maybe it's just not meant to be any better at the moment who knows, interesting though.
Blessings :)

Hi 8-infinite-8,

Thanks for your well-balanced reply. I'm reading a book at the moment called 'Discover Atlantis' by Diana Cooper. She claims to be in touch with a 'Lord of Light' by the name of Lord Kumeka. In this book, we discover that the Atlantean's are US! What do you think of that?

Anyways, 8-infinite-8, I also read in another thread that you were quite the believer in the 2012 prophecy! I think it was also you who wrote that we are living in exciting times! I was just thinking about that before I read your post. That is synchronicity.

I agree absolutely though that there is still too much negative energy in this world and that this is blocking our spiritual gifts. However, I also think that this could change quite rapidly. Sometimes I do not think that the year 2012 for a shift in human consciousness is unlikely, sometimes I think it is highly likely.
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