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  #1  
Old 16-02-2017, 08:39 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Being enlightened and not even knowing it

It's easy to be in denial of our problems, especially any mental defiencies we may have acquired during our life. Many people have mental dis-eases and don't even know they are living in a state of heightened fear and anxiety.

Similarly it's also easy to be in denial of our true oringins in enlightenment and divinity. Being afraid of the worst we are is in the same league as being afraid of the best we are. Many are enlightened and they don't even know it. The strength of the experience is enough to cause fear, even though it's a euphoric/positive type experience.

Being the worst comes with no responsibility and zero accountability which leads to a hallow identity.

Being the best of our self comes with massive responsibility and massive accountability which can lead to a burdening identity and doubt, guilt, shame, if certain aspects of our divine ego come into conflict with our shadow ego. Causing us to near immediately drop out of such a state of heightened realization.

It's easier for many to trod the middle path which is one of comfort but lacking depth of experience and fullness of life, the essential vitality that makes us want to wake up everyday.

--

It's not easy to accept all of what we are because our soul is so vast it includes all experiences and their polarities, it even includes all of time.

Wishing you all strength on the journey of acceptance and realization.

namaste
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  #2  
Old 17-02-2017, 04:16 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Namaste, shivatar.
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  #3  
Old 19-02-2017, 05:29 PM
Dan_SF Dan_SF is offline
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We are pure light, literally. Our true selves cannot be seen. everything else comes from the denial of this.

What body does cannot be called spiritual or spirituality, move off it.
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Old 20-02-2017, 03:44 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_SF
We are pure light, literally. Our true selves cannot be seen. everything else comes from the denial of this.

What body does cannot be called spiritual or spirituality, move off it.

move off it?
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  #5  
Old 20-02-2017, 05:00 AM
Baile Baile is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivatar
Being the best of our self comes with massive responsibility and massive accountability which can lead to a burdening identity and doubt, guilt, shame....

It's easier for many to trod the middle path which is one of comfort but lacking depth of experience and fullness of life...
I like your thesis, some great points. These two points though miss the mark. Read Buddhist Middle Path for an understanding of what the middle path entails. Its purpose is the exact opposite of that which you described. There's also a lot of esoteric material on it.

As for the first statement, if an individual is being the best of self, it is functioning out of a higher self place of awareness. Higher self awareness in fact transforms and heals lower self activity such as guilt and shame. And if the individual is feeling "massive responsibility and massive accountability," it's a signal the self is not working from that higher self place. The more attuned to higher self, the less-stressful life becomes as one's lower self beliefs and judgments all fall away. "Massive accountability" is a lower self concept. It's a value judgement that the higher self simply doesn't recognize or give power to.
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  #6  
Old 20-02-2017, 02:40 PM
Joyce Joyce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_SF
We are pure light, literally. Our true selves cannot be seen. everything else comes from the denial of this.

What body does cannot be called spiritual or spirituality, move off it.

This is an excellent video posted somewhere today on SF. Here it is if you haven't seen it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aHRLZ4ud0
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  #7  
Old 20-02-2017, 04:22 PM
lemex lemex is online now
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Impressive..... I call this lifting the veil. Cause and effect. We tend to see effect not cause, it is cause that needs to be changed. Buddha would say cause and effect, whereas we see effect never knowing cause. So which is most important? I actually think Buddha would understand responsibility and accountability should be part of decision and replaced with the word understanding. It is not about atonement or forgiveness, If it is not, then what? I really like this and what I have seen brought out in us.
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Old 21-02-2017, 12:39 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
I like your thesis, some great points. These two points though miss the mark. Read Buddhist Middle Path for an understanding of what the middle path entails. Its purpose is the exact opposite of that which you described. There's also a lot of esoteric material on it.

As for the first statement, if an individual is being the best of self, it is functioning out of a higher self place of awareness. Higher self awareness in fact transforms and heals lower self activity such as guilt and shame. And if the individual is feeling "massive responsibility and massive accountability," it's a signal the self is not working from that higher self place. The more attuned to higher self, the less-stressful life becomes as one's lower self beliefs and judgments all fall away. "Massive accountability" is a lower self concept. It's a value judgement that the higher self simply doesn't recognize or give power to.


I wasn't talking about the Buddhist middle path. The funny thing is when i wrote this I was like "wait i should use a different term so people dont get confused" lol.


Also i've found that working from a place of higher self does not alleviate such things. The more I work from my higher self the greater my challenges become, leading me to battle lower vibrations I thought I'd never see again.

Also I've found that working from a place of the higher self doesn't mean the lower self is gone or covered up. Since I want to work and be around "regular" people for my entire life I will always run into "lower vibration energies" simply because I choose to let those affect me. I could walk around in a high and mighty state of mind where nothing affects me, but who would want to be around a person like that? very few is the answer.
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Old 21-02-2017, 03:19 AM
running running is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivatar
It's easy to be in denial of our problems, especially any mental defiencies we may have acquired during our life. Many people have mental dis-eases and don't even know they are living in a state of heightened fear and anxiety.

Similarly it's also easy to be in denial of our true oringins in enlightenment and divinity. Being afraid of the worst we are is in the same league as being afraid of the best we are. Many are enlightened and they don't even know it. The strength of the experience is enough to cause fear, even though it's a euphoric/positive type experience.

Being the worst comes with no responsibility and zero accountability which leads to a hallow identity.

Being the best of our self comes with massive responsibility and massive accountability which can lead to a burdening identity and doubt, guilt, shame, if certain aspects of our divine ego come into conflict with our shadow ego. Causing us to near immediately drop out of such a state of heightened realization.

It's easier for many to trod the middle path which is one of comfort but lacking depth of experience and fullness of life, the essential vitality that makes us want to wake up everyday.

--

It's not easy to accept all of what we are because our soul is so vast it includes all experiences and their polarities, it even includes all of time.

Wishing you all strength on the journey of acceptance and realization.

namaste

the problem is and im just speaking from my perspective is what it actually is is sorta taboo. its socially, and culturally acceptable to think and talk about it as being perfected in action. which is totally unatainable since there are only ideas of such a thing. perspectives and so on. having to do with the popular fad of the time. to make matters worse it would move around as fast as the mind can conceptualize new ideas. im imagine it has to do with heart development but how that happens can be just about anything.

on the other hand there is such a thing as unconditional love. but its not in action. but by the power of the self, god, holy spirit, or whatever name one has for it. its not worried about who one is. what they had for breakfast. their past and so on. it only wishes to fill oneself with a joy that is beyond other things.

that love has a lot of power in it. so when somebosy first experiences it they may go kinda mad. laugh uncontrollably. cry uncontrollably. and so on. the mind and body can only take so much at a time. and the ideas of having to be good enough, or whatever the mind has fabricated to thibk its worthy will cause like a chaos. cause everything becomes intensified.

until finaly the mind accepts it. the body accepts it. and it naturally settles in the body. making the body and mind live in an europhic joy.

it then is the worker bee that builds upon itself effortlessly into greater and greater depths. through more of the cells in the body and so on.

its an endless journey.

in the process could be a whole lot of drama to work through. lifetimes of pain and memories. for some. for me it was and it was by far many times harder than anything i had experienced. but many times easier cause its something far beyond money and gold imo.

i would bet many people are experiencing that power of intoxication and have no reference to that having to do with spirituality.
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  #10  
Old 22-02-2017, 04:27 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
the problem is and im just speaking from my perspective is what it actually is is sorta taboo. its socially, and culturally acceptable to think and talk about it as being perfected in action. which is totally unatainable since there are only ideas of such a thing. perspectives and so on. having to do with the popular fad of the time. to make matters worse it would move around as fast as the mind can conceptualize new ideas. im imagine it has to do with heart development but how that happens can be just about anything.

on the other hand there is such a thing as unconditional love. but its not in action. but by the power of the self, god, holy spirit, or whatever name one has for it. its not worried about who one is. what they had for breakfast. their past and so on. it only wishes to fill oneself with a joy that is beyond other things.

that love has a lot of power in it. so when somebosy first experiences it they may go kinda mad. laugh uncontrollably. cry uncontrollably. and so on. the mind and body can only take so much at a time. and the ideas of having to be good enough, or whatever the mind has fabricated to thibk its worthy will cause like a chaos. cause everything becomes intensified.

until finaly the mind accepts it. the body accepts it. and it naturally settles in the body. making the body and mind live in an europhic joy.

it then is the worker bee that builds upon itself effortlessly into greater and greater depths. through more of the cells in the body and so on.

its an endless journey.

in the process could be a whole lot of drama to work through. lifetimes of pain and memories. for some. for me it was and it was by far many times harder than anything i had experienced. but many times easier cause its something far beyond money and gold imo.

i would bet many people are experiencing that power of intoxication and have no reference to that having to do with spirituality.

There are negative things that intensify our material existence as well. Stress can make life seem more vivid and surreal, prolonged stress can sensitize someone to an unbearable level.

If unconditional love causes euphoric mental instability, unconditional stress causes dysphoria mental instability.

Yes I would say there is plenty of both in this world and plenty people who have it but have no idea what it is.

--

Meaning at a soul level it's not important that existence be euphoric or dysphoric, it's important that it be intense. That meaning comes from how the way the world is, there is much of both in the world and many people who don't even want euphoric existence. I refuse to believe that these people are simply lost or confused and that unconditional love is the only way. What I believe is there is a divine reason behind all the stress, suffering, dysphoric existences we have.

In short I think growth occurs at all levels under the right conditions. euphoria, balance, positivity, love, are all just good conditions. they are not the only way, not the best way, not the ultimate way.
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