Idealism

[meetjazz]

Although this is probably a topic that usually falls under the theme of philosophy, but probably all spiritual beliefs also fall under the theme of philosophy. Anyhow if moderators think it should be posten to the Philosophy Forum, they can immediately move it there.

Idealism is for me, by far my most favorite philosophy and also ''spiritual belief.''Although, nowadays, idealism is almost forgotten in spiritual circles, I do think that it offers many answers to questions that we all have and hardly find satisfactory answers for them. One of the questions that has faced and continues to face some of the philosophers of the world is ‘What is reality?’

Plato addresses this question in his doctrine, the Theory of Forms. In an attempt to answer this question, he explains what the Forms are and how they affect the way the world is observed. These so-called Forms are the basis of the reality we perceive. The question one must ask him or her self is what are these forms, where do they come from, and how do they affect us as a society.’ A Platonic Form (Idea) is not a thought in someone’s mind but something that exists per se as an immutable part of the structure of reality.’ This statement is the foundation of Plato’s philosophy. He believed that besides the material world we live in and of which we experience; there is another world, an eternal world of concepts, or Forms. This eternal world is more real than the world we experience through the senses (or Empirical knowledge – knowledge based on our senses), and it is the object of knowledge, pure knowledge, not opinion.

What Plato means by the Forms is that they are the essential archetypes of things, having an eternal existence, apprehended by the mind, not the senses, for it is the mind that beholds “real existence, colorless, formless, and intangible, they are behind the way we see the world. In other words, they control the images and ideas that are presented to us.

Two examples of such forms are ideal beauty and absolute goodness. When a person makes a comment like ‘ That is a beautiful home.’ What is the difference between a beautiful home and a home that is not beautiful? This illustrates the point that Plato is attempting to make about the Forms functioning as a standard by which we compare the world to.

In essence, these Forms serve as a measuring stick by which we make our judgement’s. In regards to the Form of absolute goodness, Plato describes this one as the all- powerful form. Here Plato suggests that the other Forms derive their meaning from the Form of absolute goodness. Forms cannot be seen nor can they be felt; however, they can be apprehended by the mind. We can only see traces of the forms in the physical world, like shadows on a cave wall…. and, when we do see the shadow of a form like “true justice,” we never really see it in its ideal form (it is always imperfect and distorted) as a blurred copy(e.g., a beautiful person is a copy of Beauty). We can say about a person that she is beautiful because we know the Idea of Beauty and recognize that a person shares more or less in this Idea.

Knowledge: seeks what truly is: its concern is with Being. What really is, what has Being, is the essential nature of things: these essences, such as Beauty and Goodness, which make it possible for us to judge things as good or beautiful, these are eternal Forms or ideas.

Science: is a body of universal and necessary truths. Every science has its objects, and must have for its objects, forms: nothing other than eternal, unchanging forms can qualify to be the objects of scientific knowledge.

The Higher World: Is composed of immaterial & eternal essence that we apprehend through our minds. A Form is an eternal, unchangeable, & universal essence (they have an objective or extramental existence). What we encounter in physical world are imperfect examples of such unchanging absolutes as Goodness, Justice, Truth, & Beauty that exist in an ideal, nonspatial world. The higher world is more real for Plato than physical world, in as much as the particular things that exist in the world of bodies are copies of the Forms. Only when we focus on the Forms does genuine knowledge become possible.

Where do the Forms Exist? They have an independent existence; They have no spatial dimension; Human soul was acquainted with Forms before it was united with the body. In the process of creation, the Demiurge or God used the Forms in fashioning particular things, suggesting that the Forms had an existence prior to their embodiment in things. Forms seem to have originally existed in the “Mind of God” or in the supreme principle of rationality, the One.

How Do We know the Forms: Three different ways in which the mind discovers the Forms: 1. Recollection: Before it was united with the body, the soul was acquainted with the Forms. People now recollect what their souls knew in their prior state of existence. Visible things remind them of the essences previously known. Education is actually a process of reminiscence. People arrive that knowledge of Forms through the activity of dialectic: the power of abstracting the essence of things and discovering the relations of all divisions of knowledge to each other.

Allegory of the Cave
Plato uses the “allegory of the cave” as a means of explaining his theory. In his story, Plato describes several individuals that have been imprisoned within a cave “since childhood,” with “their necks and legs fettered” in a manner that prevents them “from turning their heads around” (Steinberger, 262). These “prisoners,” in turn, are forced to gaze upon the wall of the cave which is illuminated by a fire behind them. Plato then states that puppeteers in front of the fire project shadows of various “artifacts” onto the wall in front of the prisoners (Steinberger, 262). In doing so, Plato states that the prisoners come to believe over time “that the truth is nothing other than the shadows of those artifacts” (Steinberger, 262).

Plato then describes what would happen if one of the prisoners was allowed to leave the cave and venture outside. By leaving, Plato states that the individual learns of a reality that exists beyond the shadows of truth evident within the cave. Once the former prisoner is allowed to view the Sun outside, Plato states that “he would infer and conclude that the Sun provides the seasons and the years, governs everything in the visible world, and is in some way the cause of all things that he used to see” (Steinberger, 263). Here, Plato introduces his readers to what he considers to be the form of “goodness” (represented by the Sun), which he feels is the most important of all the various “forms” since it gives life, and illuminates everything within the physical world.

Plato concludes his story by describing what would happen when the former prisoner returns to the cave. Plato states that, upon his return, his ability to recognize the shadows upon the cave’s wall in an enlightened manner would “invite ridicule” from the prisoners beside him (Steinberger, 263). Because the prisoners that remained inside the cave were not able to venture outside, Plato concludes that they would be incapable of understanding anything the other prisoner attempted to explain to them.
Thanks to all sources J. V. , educheer.com, Karah Ramirez, Larry Slawson, brightkite.com,...

[Miss Hepburn]

Allegory of the Cave, always my favorite!

Well that's your perspective... full of discrepancies but that's a given being human .
Theres not one person alive that has a fundamentally flawless epistemology

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

Theres not one person alive that has a fundamentally flawless epistemology

...or even if there is, there's not one person alive who would ever believe they do.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

...or even if there is, there's not one person alive who would ever believe they do.

i don't know about you, but personally I was explictly told I could never have flawless knowledge. It was one of the defining moments of my life because once I understood I can't have the 'answer' to 'everything' I got to give up about 10 zillion bad habits I used while trying. What a relief!

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

i don't know about you, but personally I was explictly told I could never have flawless knowledge. It was one of the defining moments of my life because once I understood I can't have the 'answer' to 'everything' I got to give up about 10 zillion bad habits I used while trying. What a relief!

I don't believe anything I am told.

[meetjazz]

@MAYA EL
''full of discrepancies''..hmm from my point of view it is not, I mean all people use a great deal of idealism in their lives. Also all religions use a lot of idealism. For example, when people describe their gods and their angels or spiritual helpers, they do in the ideal. Of course, I do the same for my beloved goddess Kuan Yin. Let's take her as an example, which is a considerable phenomenon among religions as well as philosophies, since she is present in Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chines folk religion, it's also nothing strange if if Christians,... pray to her, in Wicca she can be present also..she is all over the place. In most cases this is possible because she has hardly any definition as such, but usually only as goddess or bodhisattva of mercy and compassion. Compassion and mercy are the same in Germany, Italy, China, Africa, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam...it's the ideal that we all known, without any knowledge about it. We don't need to speak Chines, to know Compassion, nor we need to read the Lotus Sutra, or other buddhist scriptures to know Mercy & Compassion. We all know what it is. Same as a Buddhist or someone who want to achieve ''perfect peace of mind, '' he is driven by idealism. Indeed, it is idealism that drive, social progress, our entire law system,...is based on idealism. When you look for your perfect wife or man..is idealism. Christianity took a lot from idealism, unfortunately not the part of ''EVIL AND GOOD,'' since in idealism ''Evil'' does not exist, but what we call ''Evil'' is the absence of good. Under this understanding something like the dead penalty...would not exist, since we would instead of punish people, try to help them to find their way again. Of course, over time, idealism have get all kind of wierd philosophies and claims through various philosophers, the biggest mess they did was the arguments about realism, as if idealism were opposed to all realism all across the board. Of course as they say ''Some people consider idealists to be naive, impractical, and out of touch with reality,..dreamers,'' surely Idealist may have they own troubles with our world, but well...everyone does in one way or another.

I do believe that is a kind of Argumentum ad populum fallacy

[meetjazz]

@MAYA EL
Idealism has been around for so long that is very easy for everyone to look at the critiques of idealism..and I think it's a very good thing.Certainly if idealistic understanding or interpretations does not make sense for someone, let him/her follow philosophies...that make more sense to them, I don't see any problems with that, from my point of view it is even crucial that we follow stuff that we can understand and make sense to us....and not stuff, that we need force ourselves into it and feels wrong,...

[BigJohn]

Idealism makes sense to me.