The Two Truths

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

Ch'an Master Sheng-Yen, a Chinese Buddhist monk since the age of 13, a religious scholar, and one of the mainstream teachers of Chan Buddhism said, "The genuine Three Jewels, in essence, are none other than the enlightened Buddha nature that is already inside you."

Haha yes, and how does one realize that Buddha nature?

By taking refuge in the 3 Jewels of Buddhism :)

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Haha yes, and how does one realize that Buddha nature?

By taking refuge in the 3 Jewels of Buddhism :)

That is not true, what about those who attain enlightenment without ever hearing Dharma teachings, Independently enlightened.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

Ch'an Master Sheng-Yen, a Chinese Buddhist monk since the age of 13, a religious scholar, and one of the mainstream teachers of Chan Buddhism said, "The genuine Three Jewels, in essence, are none other than the enlightened Buddha nature that is already inside you."

That's what I usually say about refuge in Buddha (the enlightenment in yourself), and this relates to Dhamma as 'the way nature is' - though the Sangha is more about social aspects regarding mutual trust and good-will in a spiritual community.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

That is not true, what about those who attain enlightenment without ever hearing Dharma teachings, Independently enlightened.

Can you name someone that reached Buddhahood that didn't?

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Can you name someone that reached Buddhahood that didn't?

Arittha, Uparittha, Tagarasikhi, Yasassi, Sudassana, Piyadassi the enlightened ,*Gandhara, Pindola and Upasabha, Nitha, Tatha, Sutava, Bhavitatta.

Here's a few to keep you going, hope this helps

[Bohdiyana]

Jonesboy you have said you have realized a lot of higher states of consciousness and energy and realizations and light and emptyness and you state you are not a Buddhist. So it seems your belief is it is not necessary to be an "official" Buddhist to realize the truths within some of it's teachings.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Arittha, Uparittha, Tagarasikhi, Yasassi, Sudassana, Piyadassi the enlightened ,*Gandhara, Pindola and Upasabha, Nitha, Tatha, Sutava, Bhavitatta.

Here's a few to keep you going, hope this helps

I have searched a few names and have yet to find one that was a Buddha.

You do know than an Arhat is not a Buddha don't you?

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I have searched a few names and have yet to find one that was a Buddha.

You do know than an Arhat is not a Buddha don't you?

' There is non so blind as those who do not want to see '

Yes I know the difference between them and it depends on what school of Buddhism you follow.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

Jonesboy you have said you have realized a lot of higher states of consciousness and energy and realizations and light and emptyness and you state you are not a Buddhist. So it seems your belief is it is not necessary to be an "official" Buddhist to realize the truths within some of it's teachings.

Thats a good point.... most of us realize these states sometime or other, even those who have never heard of the Buddha or Buddhism can and do achieve enlightenment alone, as Buddha stated.

Zen Buddhism teaches we are already enlightened but are ignorant to this fact, I think Buddha's awakening was when he realized that what he had been searching for outside with Teachers/Gurus was inside all the time....

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by sky123

That's a good point....

Yea I think there is a logic problem in the argument being put forth.

They are arguing one must be a Buddhist to experience this or that. Must not merely pick and choose, must be a full "card carrying" member who has fulfilled all of the official requirements... then they state all of the advanced states they have experienced all while not being a full fledged card carrying Buddhist.

These statements contradict each other. Either one can realize the advanced states of consciousness Buddhism talks about without being a Buddhist or one can't. You can't claim both are true.