Where there is a will there is a way! But what is "will" exactly?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The ultimate purpose of these practices (meditation) is to reveal one's true nature, a shared nature, the One nature. The many becoming the One. If one can attain that level of Awareness it's all but impossible to not experience love and joy in all of life's interactions.

In that state of Awareness it's not possible to dismiss physical reality as literally unreal, and any such dismissal is an unripe intellectual understanding and not an actual experiential knowing.

To expound on this and from an Advaita perspective.

https://youtu.be/WsblD59Y4QA?t=2059

Ripples on the pond...

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The ultimate purpose of these practices (meditation) is to reveal one's true nature, a shared nature, the One nature. The many becoming the One. If one can attain that level of Awareness it's all but impossible to not experience love and joy in all of life's interactions.

Reversing "Seek, and you will find, "You will 'find' what you seek!"

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

In that state of Awareness it's not possible to dismiss physical reality as literally unreal, and any such dismissal is an unripe intellectual understanding and not an actual experiential knowing.

An Advaitian (or anyone else) who desires (even if just counterphobically) to 'see' (i.e. experience) physical/personal being as being an unreal [illusion U]will[/u] see/experience that ( to iamthat, iamit, et al.).

This is the Magical 'Mystery' (Tour?) of 'the Law' of 'Attraction'! From Ch.7 of the Gita "But whatever the form of worship, if the devotee have faith, then upon his faith in that worship do I*set My own seal. ... The fruit that comes to men of limited insight is, after all, finite. They who worship the Lower Powers attain them; but those who worship Me come unto Me alone."

Hence the advice: Be care-full what you pray for and/or 'allow' when when you 'meditate' - you just may 'get' it.

"If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Yada,yada, yads ....

JASG is on the 'best' possible 'track' as a 'tracker' in this regard, IMO.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Reversing "Seek, and you will find, "You will 'find' what you seek!"

I always liked the Zen proverb "When you seek it, you cannot find it". It makes sense in the context of the Buddhist approach to craving and aversion. It's also true for meditation where there is no seeking and no pushing away, eventually revealing That which was always there but unnoticed.

Originally Posted by davidsun

JASG is on the 'best' possible 'track' as a 'tracker' in this regard, IMO.

I suppose from each of our own perspectives we all appear to be on the best possible track and maybe for any given point in time and based on what preceded we are. I can only look into my own life and experiences. Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been. LOL!

I know what's worked for me, but I'm not so blind as to think it must work for others. Still, that's not a reason to not put forth my perspective and leave it to the audience to decide its worth or lack thereof.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I always liked the Zen proverb "When you seek it, you cannot find it". It makes sense in the context of the Buddhist approach to craving and aversion. It's also true for meditation where there is no seeking and no pushing away, eventually revealing That which was always there but unnoticed.

I say a loud "No" to this. Such 'proverbial' statement is over-simplistic and shows a 'sophists' lack of understanding of the LOA and desire to sound 'wise' nevertheless, in my deeply considered opinion. The truth (IMO) is that if one 'seeks' something from a 'stance' (belief?) of not already being 'in range' in terms of 'access' to it, one then will not 'find' it. Same applies to the abortiveness of a person who believes s/he lacks the wherewithal to generate wealth 'seeking' to become 'rich'.

This kind of statement is often used to 'hook' people who believe they are 'stupid' and that, because they can't logically[!] understand what is said, said 'fake' (IMO) 'teacher' must really know all!

Not that undecipherable 'koans' can't serve to exhaust a person's propensity to 'struggle' and thereby instrumentally set the stage for her/his having 'breakthrough' insight(s), mind you.

Do you really want to advocate "No 'seeking'," JASG? It is because you say things like this that I have 'suspected' the integrity of your 'search' and doubted your grasp of 'wisdom'.

I hope my splaining my 'take' on the things you say gives you additional insight into the why and wherefore of my disputation(s), JASG.

Originally Posted by davidsun

I say a loud "No" to this. Such 'proverbial' statement is over-simplistic and shows a 'sophists' lack of understanding of the LOA and desire to sound 'wise' nevertheless, in my deeply considered opinion. The truth (IMO) is that if one 'seeks' something from a 'stance' (belief?) of not already being 'in range' in terms of 'access' to it, one then will not 'find' it. Same applies to the abortiveness of a person who believes s/he lacks the wherewithal to generate wealth 'seeking' to become 'rich'.

This kind of statement is often used to 'hook' people who believe they are 'stupid' and that, because they can't logically[!] understand what is said, said 'fake' (IMO) 'teacher' must really know all!

Not that undecipherable 'koans' can't serve to exhaust a person's propensity to 'struggle' and thereby instrumentally set the stage for her/his having 'breakthrough' insight(s), mind you.

Do you really want to advocate "No 'seeking'," JASG? It is because you say things like this that I have 'suspected' the integrity of your 'search' and doubted your grasp of 'wisdom'.

I hope my splaining my 'take' on the things you say gives you additional insight into the why and wherefore of my disputation(s), JASG.

I'm saying take the journey for the journey's sake and without attachment to a preconceived destination. It probably seems counterintuitive but as far as I can determine it's necessary for non-dual realization because that destination can't possibly be conceived beforehand. Any preconception will most likely lead one astray, at least for a time.

If the journey is undertaken in earnest there's a great chance the truth will reveal itself.

Think of wax on, wax off. LOL!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm saying take the journey for the journey's sake and without attachment to a preconceived destination. It probably seems counterintuitive but as far as I can determine it's necessary for non-dual realization because that destination can't possibly be conceived beforehand. Any preconception will most likely lead one astray, at least for a time.

Right back atcaha, JASG! - I;m still trying to 'burst' your "I'm-surely-on-the-best/right-track" 'bubble'!

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

If the journey is undertaken in earnest there's a great chance the truth will reveal itself.

Everyone one is earnest in their own way - even those who think they are only 'looking' for the truth!

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Think of wax on, wax off. LOL!

I reiterate, "One will 'find' what one 'seeks' - even when one thinks that one is completely detached ('cuz there no such thang - LOGIC 101: if anyone were to become completely detached from all values in THE Flow of Life, s/he would just go 'POOF'!

[HITESH SHAH]

[quote=davidsun]Right back atcaha, JASG! - I;m still trying to 'burst' your "I'm-surely-on-the-best/right-track" 'bubble'!

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

If the journey is undertaken in earnest there's a great chance the truth will reveal itself.[/quite]
Everyone one is earnest in their own way - even those who think they are only 'looking' for the truth!


I reiterate, "One will 'find' what one 'seeks' - even when one thinks that one is completely detached ('cuz there no such thang - LOGIC 101: if anyone were to become completely detached from all values in THE Flow of Life, s/he would just go 'POOF'!

Now the 'ultimate realization ' has turned to 'journey' and 'ongoing life flow' to 'praying for and seeking' . While I can feel the differences and nuances , I feel both stands appear to have reversed now . I see really no much difference . Yet its lot of educative and informative to a good extent.

[quote=HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Right back atcaha, JASG! - I;m still trying to 'burst' your "I'm-surely-on-the-best/right-track" 'bubble'!



Now the 'ultimate realization ' has turned to 'journey' and 'ongoing life flow' to 'praying for and seeking' . While I can feel the differences and nuances , I feel both stands appear to have reversed now . I see really no much difference . Yet its lot of educative and informative to a good extent.

My take on it...

The journey is the practices and it seems to me they are best approached with an open mind and without preconceptions. If anything is being sought it is knowing that which is not known, and since it's not known one really can't make it a goal of seeking. The trouble with seeking a goal (destination) that is not known is the ego will be more than happy to hijack the journey, steering it to its own destination and for its own purpose.

If one examines one of the practices - meditation - the same applies. Practice for the sake of practicing and see what reveals itself. Any teacher worth his or her salt will advise against preconceived notions of a destination and experience-seeking.

I'm sure the Hindu saying "There is no path but only a fool does not walk it" somehow plays into this, but I'll have to give it some thought because it's not yet obvious to me.

Oh, one other thing. I had absolutely no idea where I was going for a good ten years, just diving into consciousness studies and meditation just for the sake of meditating, and then suddenly it hit me upside the head like a brick. LOL!

EDIT: I suppose one could say the seeking is for the Divine, but that's a very amorphous goal, isn't it, and likely to reveal Itself in unexpected ways.

[HITESH SHAH]

[quote=JustASimpleGuy]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

My take on it...

The journey is the practices and it seems to me they are best approached with an open mind and without preconceptions. If anything is being sought it is knowing that which is not known, and since it's not known one really can't make it a goal of seeking. The trouble with seeking a goal (destination) that is not known is the ego will be more than happy to hijack the journey, steering it to its own destination and for its own purpose.

If one examines one of the practices - meditation - the same applies. Practice for the sake of practicing and see what reveals itself. Any teacher worth his or her salt will advise against preconceived notions of a destination and experience-seeking.

I'm sure the Hindu saying "There is no path but only a fool does not walk it" somehow plays into this, but I'll have to give it some thought because it's not yet obvious to me.

Oh, one other thing. I had absolutely no idea where I was going for a good ten years, just diving into consciousness studies and meditation just for the sake of meditating, and then suddenly it hit me upside the head like a brick. LOL!

EDIT: I suppose one could say the seeking is for the Divine, but that's a very amorphous goal, isn't it, and likely to reveal Itself in unexpected ways.

My previous comment is not in offence to either of u and I understand your proposition and its background and fully appreciate and agree with it . I think DS also talks of continuity of life flow . So apparently for me not much differences except for subtlety and nuances .

Of course that slight deviation (subtle differences ) too make difference at a very high speed and after a long time it becomes 360 degree u turn .