Integrate or Renounce .

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Moonglow

I spent time as a practicing medium and I still do a little bit here and there, but if it taught me one thing it's that our Loved Ones in Spirit are watching over us even though we don't realise it. The physical experience has its 'uses' and meanings in Spirit - apparently we're here to learn the lessons after all so if it's of no benefit? So if we're renouncing, what exactly are we renouncing?

To be honest I find discussions like these don't go deep enough, if the question is simply renounce or integrate' what are we renouncing/integrating and what are he reasons? It's not which one is more holy or better, it's the reasons we're doing it that's the important part. So if you're tying to make this Life null and void, what does that tell you about yourself?

There's a saying in this part of the world - "You're a long time dead." What that means is that it's wise to make the most of the time you have when you have it, and granted we don't die but the sentiment is the same- make the most of this Life before you move on.

There is Spirituality in being non-Spiritual.

Hi Greenslade,

Everything I experience comes back to this self. Feel holds true for everyone else. How I may interpret, perceive, and notice things seem to affect in what manner I respond or react.

I exist, as does everything else. If there is no individual, then what reason is there to announce such belief/feeling? Can go on and on with exchanging various ideas and suc, but it is the life lived and the what and how that forms this existence into a life lived, IMO.

When chatting with someone in a store or on the street, usually the first question isn't "Are you spiritual?", it is usually "How ya doin'?"lol. So what is seen first? The person or whatever may be believed or realized?

Yes, I have learned and continue to notice life is what I make it.

How boring it would be if all were the same.

Agree, have eternity to be dead or in Spirit, only have this monetary time to be this Human-Being. Why renounce any of it? For me it is finding ways to work through it and with in living. In these ways I have and continue to expand the view.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

To be honest I find discussions like these don't go deep enough, if the question is simply renounce or integrate' what are we renouncing/integrating and what are he reasons? It's not which one is more holy or better, it's the reasons we're doing it that's the important part. So if you're tying to make this Life null and void, what does that tell you about yourself?

.

Be my guest G.S. take it as deep as you like .

Start the ball rolling ...


x daz x

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I have had chats of late that reflect the waking state and the dream state and spoke about the similarities and the differences . If there wasn't a stark difference realized upon awaking then one would not be aware that they are awake or of a dream for all there would be is awareness of what's occurring in those moments .

When there is Self realization there is no self, there is no awakened state or dream state, so when an individual says the Self is real and mind-body associations are illusory one must have the comparison .

The comparison therefore must be solely down to being aware of self beyond the physical-mind-body experience .

Spirit folk - guides are no longer of the physical and they might say that their spirit-etheric-form is illusory based upon what comparison? An experience of what they are of the causal-light-body?

And again this state of being maybe illusory based the comparison beyond the light-body .

We could go on and on comparing until there is a point reached where there is no thought that I AM and that would not entertain the notion that I AM real or illusory based upon one's attained state .

So the notion that the mind-body is not this and not that is compared to and with what? I am this and this lol ..


x dazzler x

Hi daz,

To me you touch upon cause and effect, in a way.

Something arises from something else and can not arise from "no-thing"

To me the nothing or "no-thing" is what the mind can not comprehend or place into words or possibly imagine. It is noticed, but what it may be or seems a mystery of sorts. So, one may do the best to place it in context that can be understood or atleast give some sense to it.

I personally do not follow there is no self. While living this life there is, it can be sensed, in ways.

Yes, can go back and forth 'til the cows come home about it and in the end walk away being the person we were before. Maybe a little wiser, maybe not.

It seems only comparing ourselves to each other. Which is not always a bad thing. It can broaden the outlook and be inspiring with in the exchange.

Thank you for your outlook

Originally Posted by God-Like

Be my guest G.S. take it as deep as you like .

Start the ball rolling ...


x daz x

Already rolling, the depths come from the exploring of reasons and following through the threads of questions and answers - what are the reasons we either integrate or renounce? This being a Spiritual forum and all, does that imply the many people have integrated an accepted definition of Spirituality and if so, what are the reasons? By the way some people talk they are 'all Spirituality' and they try to renounce the 'mundane', what are the reasons for that?

Similarly in some of the things you've been mentioning - the various selfs and the illusory; what is it we're renouncing or integrating and what are the reasons? Because in telling ourselves we're so Spiritual in integrating the concept that this existence is an illusion are we merely running away from reality because we can't - or won't - deal with it? It's once you begin to start going down that Path when a whole different can of worms is opened up.

Einstein wasn't so wrong after all, we have the concept that there is Spiritual versus the mundane and never the twain shall meet.

Originally Posted by God-Like

If we potentially entertain every opposing concept within our mind then scrambled eggs comes to mind .

In Sacred Geometry it's called the Vesica Pisces and forms the basis for the Christian fish symbol and the Eye of Ra. In Christianity it's called the trinity, in pre-Taoist alchemy it's called Triplex Unity and in Wiccan the Power of Three is based on it. Spirituality seems to be struggling with it. Bsically there is this, there is that and there is both. It's also been called Paradoxical Thinking where there is this, there is that, there is both and there is none of them.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade,

Everything I experience comes back to this self. Feel holds true for everyone else. How I may interpret, perceive, and notice things seem to affect in what manner I respond or react.

I exist, as does everything else. If there is no individual, then what reason is there to announce such belief/feeling? Can go on and on with exchanging various ideas and suc, but it is the life lived and the what and how that forms this existence into a life lived, IMO.

When chatting with someone in a store or on the street, usually the first question isn't "Are you spiritual?", it is usually "How ya doin'?"lol. So what is seen first? The person or whatever may be believed or realized?

Yes, I have learned and continue to notice life is what I make it.

How boring it would be if all were the same.

Agree, have eternity to be dead or in Spirit, only have this monetary time to be this Human-Being. Why renounce any of it? For me it is finding ways to work through it and with in living. In these ways I have and continue to expand the view.

The bottom line is that we all have a sense of "I Am" regardless of what that is or how we define it, and often what we're getting caught up in is not the complexity of ourselves but the complexity of how the mind puts on even more layers of seeming reality. What we haven't realised yet is that we are not our definitions, even though our definitions create our reality. We don't listen to ourselves - "I am Spiritual." I know it's the correct grammar but words create worlds so Spiritual first and person second. Is it any wonder people have problems? lol

"We are multi-dimension beings...." yadda yadda. No we're not, we renounce anything outside the dimension of Spirituality, which itself integrates and doesn't renounce. Perhaps Spirituality is a synonym for bonkers.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Einstein wasn't so wrong after all, we have the concept that there is Spiritual versus the mundane and never the twain shall meet.

Just counter quoting for a moment here and will get back to your main post later when I have more time ..

Just done a little research on raziel as I had the connection during healing work last night and I thought this quote is perhaps apt in regards to integrating spirituality in the physical ..

The angel Raziel also taught Adam the knowledge of the power of speech, the power of thoughts and the power of a person's soul within the confines of the physical body and this physical world, basically teaching the knowledge with which one can harmonize physical and spiritual existence in this physical world.



x daz x

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The bottom line is that we all have a sense of "I Am" regardless of what that is or how we define it, and often what we're getting caught up in is not the complexity of ourselves but the complexity of how the mind puts on even more layers of seeming reality. What we haven't realised yet is that we are not our definitions, even though our definitions create our reality. We don't listen to ourselves - "I am Spiritual." I know it's the correct grammar but words create worlds so Spiritual first and person second. Is it any wonder people have problems? lol

"We are multi-dimension beings...." yadda yadda. No we're not, we renounce anything outside the dimension of Spirituality, which itself integrates and doesn't renounce. Perhaps Spirituality is a synonym for bonkers.

For me,spiritual is more the way I view life then in how I identify myself.

It is an aspect of my make up. It opens my mind to be aware and notice the interactions and connections on some levels.

Can also feel and experience on the physical as well. Which leads my awareness that Spirit flows through it all and does not require or distinguish one as more important then the other. Suppose for the individual it may be what serves or deemed important.

Perhaps when not holding onto a side or identity in regards to I am this may be bonkers. That is if one is looking for sides to choose.

[7luminaries]

Hello there Greenslade, how's stuff?

Just to say first off...I have never been one to renounce EXCEPT strategically as needed, where that brings balance in integration...like (e.g.,) starving the wolf of sadism re: torture. Purge the dross in the forge. Starve that b*stard and don't think twice about it, LOL...and no worries, as it'll forge ye backbones of tempered steel. But as for discipline, whilst the lion's share of valour, it too must know moderation...there is a special integration there, in which the strong channel is broadened without being corrupted, weakened, or compromised.

I also appreciate your mention of integration not an amalgam or amorphous stew of different parts, but the integration of difference in the alchemical sense where the all is transformational within you, each in its own way and time.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

...we have the concept that there is Spiritual versus the mundane and never the twain shall meet.
...
In Sacred Geometry it's called the Vesica Pisces and forms the basis for the Christian fish symbol and the Eye of Ra. In Christianity it's called the trinity, in pre-Taoist alchemy it's called Triplex Unity and in Wiccan the Power of Three is based on it. Spirituality seems to be struggling with it. Bsically there is this, there is that and there is both. It's also been called Paradoxical Thinking where there is this, there is that, there is both and there is none of them.

Here's what came to my mind, and it very concretely speaks to the relevance and primacy of the denser material aspects of our existence (matter), which cannot be separated from the ethereal or spiritual aspects (consciousness). The illusion IMO is that somehow they can actually be separated, LOL...simply because we wish it or want it to go away, or prefer not to deal with what may be seen as the often sordid realities of our existence.

What came to my mind is that the trinity you mention is encapsulated in the Triple Burner of the three organ-energy systems that regulate life (embodied consciousness). As the name designates, the sanjiao (Triple Burner) is a fire-energy/yang organ. We literally embody the trinity within, according to this ancient healing and diagnostic tradition. The fire of original chi or qi is what Western mystics call the divine spark, which emanates into the physical realm and animates the body.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?...&hsimp=yhs-004

Triple Burner: Psycho-Emotional Aspects
The Triple Burners are considered the Ambassadors or "intermediaries" for the body's Yuan (Original) Qi.
On a psychological level, they can be used to move Qi and lift depression derived from stagnation of Liver Qi.

When the Triple Burners, which regulate the consciousness, are full, the consciousness becomes stable and the Mind's intent is benevolent and kindhearted. The Triple Burners are also linked with the Heart and Pericardium and are affected by the emotion of joy. When the energy of the heart is strong and pure (without guilt), and the desires and thoughts of an individual are at peace, then the energy of the body's sexual essence (Jing) will spread into the Triple Burners, and the Blood will flourish within the individual's vessels.

If the "fire of desire" is allowed to Heat and combine with the energy of the Triple Burners, the energy of the individual's sexual essence will overflow, mixing itself with the energy of the Mingmen and will leave the body via the reproductive organs and tissues. This leads to Jing and Qi depletion.

Peace and blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Here's what came to my mind, and it very concretely speaks to the relevance and primacy of the denser material aspects of our existence (matter), which cannot be separated from the ethereal or spiritual aspects (consciousness). The illusion IMO is that somehow they can actually be separated, LOL...

Zackley ..

This is why there is the realisation that all is Self .

From what I can gather is that after realisation one can for whatever reason go two ways ...

One is integrating all that is, that is Self or one can hold onto the Self that is beyond the denser / manifest / matter of Self and renounce it .

There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, it's one or the other ..

What I said to Moonie was when you are of the body you are of the body, when your not, your not ..

This really does cater for specific contexts .

To mix context by referring to Self un manifest while experiencing Self as matter / manifest is cross dressing contexts and platforms .

It doesn't work .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Already rolling, the depths come from the exploring of reasons and following through the threads of questions and answers - what are the reasons we either integrate or renounce? This being a Spiritual forum and all, does that imply the many people have integrated an accepted definition of Spirituality and if so, what are the reasons? By the way some people talk they are 'all Spirituality' and they try to renounce the 'mundane', what are the reasons for that?

Similarly in some of the things you've been mentioning - the various selfs and the illusory; what is it we're renouncing or integrating and what are the reasons? Because in telling ourselves we're so Spiritual in integrating the concept that this existence is an illusion are we merely running away from reality because we can't - or won't - deal with it? It's once you begin to start going down that Path when a whole different can of worms is opened up.

Einstein wasn't so wrong after all, we have the concept that there is Spiritual versus the mundane and never the twain shall meet.

In Sacred Geometry it's called the Vesica Pisces and forms the basis for the Christian fish symbol and the Eye of Ra. In Christianity it's called the trinity, in pre-Taoist alchemy it's called Triplex Unity and in Wiccan the Power of Three is based on it. Spirituality seems to be struggling with it. Bsically there is this, there is that and there is both. It's also been called Paradoxical Thinking where there is this, there is that, there is both and there is none of them.

Like said a little way back regarding self identifications and self reflections / references, we just can't help associating with everything while we are in experience of this mindful world . Even in meditation one can still associate that they are identifying with peacefulness instead of noise and they will still reflect upon what they are associating themselves with in reflection of the peace and the noise .

Of course at a point it's possible to go beyond the associations .

So when you ask what are the reasons for why we either integrate or renounce it will be because of how we perceive ourselves .

Everything is reflected in regards to how we perceive ourselves .

If you renounce God then you do so in reflection of how you perceive yourself .

One has to acknowledge what they renounce or integrate .

If you think of magnets and their opposite poles attracting and repelling then it's kinda like that with our own alignment .

When an individual is self destructing to a point of no return one pushes away help from others ..

It's a natural expression based upon how they perceive themselves in the moment .


x daz x