Dependent origination - Page 46

inavalan · #**451** 26-01-2020, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

The ontological structure is firstly to hear the dhamma teachings and assume there is something to them on the basis of them supposedly said by the enlightened one; secondly, to intellectually chech if they are consistent, logical, they add up or seem to make sense and; lastly, to investigate the 'mindful objects' (mind body thoughts sensations) to see for yourself if what was said is true.

Yes it's a good point. Firstly there is philosophical aspect in the sense it is true a sutta says this and that, and that's quite a complex or nuanced philosophy. Secondly there's a practice, which is where it seems to become a mish mash of contradictory undertakings. Hence people can say you are feelings in one sentence and say you can't be that in the next.

I think the basic point is overlooked, and that is, are you aware of 'this' as it actually is (in the way you experience it to be) right now? There is an underlying investigation which looks into the underlying nature of said actuality - impermanance, change, emptiness and what have you.

You believe:
1. that that person is enlightened
2. that you know what enlightened means
3. that the suttas aren't contestable
4. that what you experience is accurate, and not your own creation
5. that all those words you mentioned are meaningful
6. (and more)

All those beliefs distort your experiences. The first sign should worry everybody is when they believe they might know the truth.

BigJohn · #**452** 26-01-2020, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

Yea you basically need to to do a whole bunch of meditation to get the gist of the philosophy...

Are you saying the holly writings are almost meaningless and we should follow blind faith?

inavalan · #**453** 26-01-2020, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

Yea you basically need to to do a whole bunch of meditation to get the gist of the philosophy...

You see, you believe that meditation is the only / best tool "to get the gist of the philosophy". That is a belief. I disagree with your statement, and I am as sure as you probably are,

... both about the tool and the philosophy. And it's okay, until somebody is dismissive to another's belief, which makes him / her ... amusing.

sky · #**454** 26-01-2020, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan

The "practice" is based on Buddhist teachings and gurus, so it starts from beliefs that are, (guess what!) as expected, confirmed. Even more, the practice's goal is to confirm them.

My point was / is that your truth doesn't weigh more than anybody else's. At least on my scale ...

I respect everybody's right to their opinions (not their opinions), and I'm amused by those who believe they know the absolute truth, especially if they subscribe to others' truth.

The practice is actually based on Universal Truths....

sky · #**455** 26-01-2020, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Are you saying the holly writings are almost meaningless and we should follow blind faith?

What are ' Holly Writings ' ?

inavalan · #**456** 26-01-2020, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

The practice is actually based on Universal Truths....

Give me one Universal Truth, and please explain me how do you know that.

sky · #**457** 26-01-2020, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan

Give me one Universal Truth, and please explain me how do you know that.

Attachment causes pain, I know through experience

Nothing lasts forever. Experience shows this.

One and one spare....

inavalan · #**458** 26-01-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

Attachment causes pain, I know through experience

Nothing lasts forever. Experience shows this.

One and one spare....

Your experience, as everybody's, isn't a yardstick for the truth.

1. Not attachment, but ignorance causes pain.
2. Your inner-self lasts forever
3. I suspect you think of "forever" in terms of time ... which is instantaneous (not simultaneous)

Anyway, I got more into this ping-pong than I intended, and I'm sure this leads nowhere. I won't think back of the arguments I replied to, as those I replied to will dismiss my arguments. And that is okay.

Phaelyn · #**459** 26-01-2020, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

Attachment causes pain, I know through experience

Nothing lasts forever. Experience shows this.

One and one spare....

I think one can be attached to non-attachment.
The universe is 13.8 billion years old and still going...

But yea I think everything is supposed to be sucked into a black hole eventually, but then it just gets packed denser and denser until another big bang happens,...so all this stuff seems to last forever.

It's funny to think of the two possibilities.

Say everything ends someday......what is left then? What is nothing?
Infinity is a trip too.

Lets say space is infinite without end.... NO END~
You could get in a magical space ship that travels billions and billions of miles a second.... and you can't reach the end of space BECAUSE THERE IS NONE~

So then you think, ok that is bizarre... lets say there is an end.... the only other possibility....well that is just as mind boggling.....

what is on the other side where the end is? How can an end exist?
what is nothing?

Both possibilities are incomprehensible to a human being and one has to be true.

Phaelyn · #**460** 26-01-2020, 08:39 AM

Along the same lines, many scientists are now convinced of intelligent design due to recent discoveries in molecular biology. The first thing many think of is, ok so some intelligence made all this, why are there mistakes? Species that died off, planets with no life, things like illness and sickness? The all powerful all knowing God concept goes bye bye. The creator(s) make mistakes and don't know everything. They are more like us than Gods.