No God

[Gem]

It's not to accept the beliefs, it's just that sectarian beliefs are not relevant. You can feel the breath moving and you know it's real in the most direct sense, and this regardless of any belief. People think their beliefs are important, but really, it's just imaginary thoughts. This not to say I rubbish them - it's only saying it doesn't matter. Anyone can feel the breath moving regardless of all that.

That is a key in meditation. The truth as it is. The truth of yourself. Religion is just imagination made real with robes and rituals, just dressed up with symbols and acted out. Different religions dress up and act out in different ways, but everyone is breathing. There is no Buddhist breath, Hindu breath and so on.

No one accepts the breath because it is not a made up thing. It's simply true, and instead of believing you are breathing, you simply look and see for yourself.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Gem

I just mention breathing because anyone can feel what it's like, and that represents what it is to look and find out. Without imagining anything, just see it as it is in the way it is actually experienced by you. It is the truth as you experience it.

Yes Gem, I can follow, but we can still experience things we can't explain with or without us focussing on the breath and without actually imagining things, or using visualization techniques. Judging all content as mental fabrication does not strike me as discernment. There's more to spirituality than breathing on the one hand and mental fabrications on the other.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Altair

Yes Gem, I can follow, but we can still experience things we can't explain with or without us focussing on the breath and without actually imagining things, or using visualization techniques. Judging all content as mental fabrication does not strike me as discernment. There's more to spirituality than breathing on the one hand and mental fabrications on the other.

Its about whats true, and people can tell what I say about breath is true without believing me because they are aware of it. the breath is only implying something - to know what the experience IS - in the way you experience it.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's not to accept the beliefs, it's just that sectarian beliefs are not relevant. You can feel the breath moving and you know it's real in the most direct sense, and this regardless of any belief. People think their beliefs are important, but really, it's just imaginary thoughts. This not to say I rubbish them - it's only saying it doesn't matter. Anyone can feel the breath moving regardless of all that.

That is a key in meditation. The truth as it is. The truth of yourself. Religion is just imagination made real with robes and rituals, just dressed up with symbols and acted out. Different religions dress up and act out in different ways, but everyone is breathing. There is no Buddhist breath, Hindu breath and so on.

No one accepts the breath because it is not a made up thing. It's simply true, and instead of believing you are breathing, you simply look and see for yourself.

Thanks for your insight.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by Gem

Its about whats true, and people can tell what I say about breath is true without believing me because they are aware of it. the breath is only implying something - to know what the experience IS - in the way you experience it.

It is true that our finite occupied space Universe exists after any single individual or species of humans die.


Its true that all humans have a complementary metaphysical-1 ego, except perhaps a person in a coma. The newborn infant has and ego and is not yet conscious of it.


I believe that the infants first In-Spiration of breath ---and umbilical chord dissconnect-- that seperates the infants ego { i } identifier from the mothers ego { i } identifier.

[Gem]

No need to complicate the meditation itself - you just observe and dhamma does the rest. Watch the natural unfolding. To 'just be and let be' is a great relief.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Gem

No need to complicate the meditation itself - you just observe and dhamma does the rest. Watch the natural unfolding. To 'just be and let be' is a great relief.

That indeed is the key point !

[r6r6]

django--I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

God is another word for Universe and if our finite, occupied space Universe expands and contracts, then that is similar to breathing as the lungs expand and contract when we breath.

At the peak of contraction of lungs ---Ex-Spiration--- wesee increase of layers of outer surface Gravity ( ) increasing to create the largest possible black hole that is referred to some as a singularity. ((((*))))

At the peak of expansion of the lungs ---In-Spiration--- we have entropic heat death ---via Dark Energy )(--- where all fermionic matter and bosonic forces have been dispersed as one very large and very flat{ lowest frequency } photon.


Eternity is to time, ---/\/\/----


As infinite is to space, ---Space( )( )Space---

[Gem]

........................

[Gem]

The primary concern being the resolution of suffering, purification, and liberation or nirvana, one could question the relevance of God. One can include the relevance of the person, but Buddhism is not helpful when it comes to self-theory either. Buddhism's fundamental premise is misery arises from ignorance - but don't misconstrue that - the interwoven facets of the 12 dependent origins are more subtle that the blunt premise. People can Google the dependent origins if they give a damn, or otherwise, just understand that 'ignorance' refers to an incomplete awareness. It makes no difference if you have a deep understanding of the philosophy, or a layman's grasp such as mine, or if you've never heard of it before. This is a topic of conversation in which all that could be discussed, or not, and something else cqan be talked about. What matters is the truth. Truthfulness. To know yourself by being mindfully aware, and no making excused, judgments and justifications about it. Simply knowing what is true in the immediate sense, like I know this is a long breath or I know it is a short breath. Please don't think I'm only refering to the breath ;literally, because I use it figuratively to illustrate that you are utterly doubtless that 'this' is the experience, but doubtful regarding your God(s). Doubt is the bedfellow of faith. I believe things which I doubt are true, indeed, I'm certain they are not true. They are like stories I can use to make sense of things. Some stories are self-defeating and I know they are not true, but I still believe them in the sense that I live as if they are.


All your stories about 'me' are quite as inane as you beliefs in God. Some stories are positive and useful for confidence and so forth, and some stories are self-hateful useless and destructive. None of them are actually true. The truth is not told as a story. The sages have said it is ineffable, yet it is true that this breath coming in feels precisely like 'this'.