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  #11  
Old 21-11-2018, 01:37 PM
moonincancer moonincancer is offline
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Thank you for this excellent thread and for sharing your knowledge. This post is much needed within India too:)
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:02 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
If I recall, we spoke previously about the books by Swami Satyananda Saraswati...Sure Ways to Self Realisation....He also wrote a lot about Tantra and Kundalini. This is the background I hail from, but I recall asking Swami Chidananda Saraswati about Kundalini...He didn't want anything to do with what Swami Satyananda was doing. LOL

Even so, there is a huge difference between stuff written by Swami Satyananda and what is generally found online...So, let me see it I can snap myself out of a "hating the Internet" mood..

https://archive.org/details/SwamiSat...Tantra/page/n1

This is the only free version I could find...The reproduction is terrible. All other versions have been removed due to copyright, yet the book has been out of print for 20 years...that sucks...

I guess, like all knowledge, there are various levels of it and some won't be able to find the truth until they are ready to receive it....The way that it SHOULD be.

I guess I have a problem with people accepting inferior knowledge as the whole truth of the matter because they are locked into THAT vibration...when I so badly want to do a Jack Nicholson impersonation...If it weren't for the fact that many people will read a page by someone like Yogi Bhajan or Nirmala Devi and believe they know everything there IS to know about the subject, while I just sit there crawling in my own skin because I had a Tantric master...I will get over this New Age obsession with a pain in the a$$ = Kundalini rising and paying unknown Gurus without any lineage exorbitant amounts of money for "Shaktipat"..

It is all psychosomatic, because if it didn't work, there's no way they can get a refund anyway...I'll get over it...

And for once and all, the chakras are NOT colourful disks spinning within the body and Kundalini isnt a real snake...Yeah, getting over the ignorance of others who honesty believe that it is the same serpent from the Garden of Eden had something to do with it...

I am sure the Book of Genesis wasn't in Swami Svatmarama's mind when he wrote the Hatha Yoga Pradipika....

There will ALWAYS exist a huge discrepancy within me between New Age Hinduism and Traditional Hinduism...and often I just read so much of this NA bunkum about practices predating the whole movement and the pressure cooker starts building up stream inside...and it needs an outlet.

Fortunately for me, David Frawley came to the rescue yet again....and HE is a guy that knows what's what about this...and I was so glad that I was not the only sole/ lone voice preaching in the wilderness and I am in some amazing company.
https://yogainternational.com/articl...ths-old-truths

Aum Namah Shivaya

you always know how to deliver :) thank you my friend.

I can relate to the pain that you feel when constantly encountering people who have barely practiced spirituality in depth but feel as if they know everything. It's enough to make a sane person go mad. There is this constant upwelling of people without spiritual knowledge who think they know everything and they think they are such rock stars.

And god forbid you actually try to help them. you'll most likely go mad and not make much of a difference. Sure you will help a few people but there will always be this constant ignorance that is in the world. there will always be an insane amount of people who know nothing or know illusions, but are so certain they know the highest truths and are willing to treat you like dirt if you don't agree with them or compliment them and build their ego or comfort their delicate emotions.

I've moved away from trying to help people for that exact reason. It doesnt matter how many you help because there is always an ever growing amount of spiritually ignorant people looking for help. If you allow yourself to be immersed in that kind of place you'll quickly become overwhelmed by the sheer negativity they bring to you. And yes there is some kind of nobility in helping people but for people like us who are advanced and looking to continue to the point of being a master, well that is not our place. we can leave that job to the novices and the masters while we continue to attempt becoming a master. The only thing I will consider is teaching or helping inviduals who are far along the path and have already put in a great deal of effort into acquiring knowledge or building spiritual strength.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:05 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Originally Posted by shivatar
you always know how to deliver :) thank you my friend.

I can relate to the pain that you feel when constantly encountering people who have barely practiced spirituality in depth but feel as if they know everything. It's enough to make a sane person go mad. There is this constant upwelling of people without spiritual knowledge who think they know everything and they think they are such rock stars.

And god forbid you actually try to help them. you'll most likely go mad and not make much of a difference. Sure you will help a few people but there will always be this constant ignorance that is in the world. there will always be an insane amount of people who know nothing or know illusions, but are so certain they know the highest truths and are willing to treat you like dirt if you don't agree with them or compliment them and build their ego or comfort their delicate emotions.

I've moved away from trying to help people for that exact reason. It doesnt matter how many you help because there is always an ever growing amount of spiritually ignorant people looking for help. If you allow yourself to be immersed in that kind of place you'll quickly become overwhelmed by the sheer negativity they bring to you. And yes there is some kind of nobility in helping people but for people like us who are advanced and looking to continue to the point of being a master, well that is not our place. we can leave that job to the novices and the masters while we continue to attempt becoming a master. The only thing I will consider is teaching or helping inviduals who are far along the path and have already put in a great deal of effort into acquiring knowledge or building spiritual strength.
You are totally correct there, my love.

The past week or so, has seen me try to help many people, and yesterday I reached the startling conclusion that most people simply do not deserve my help!

Most people live in total denial, asking people for help, when they don't want to do anything to change the situation that makes them suffer in the first place and I honestly don't know how others can have compassion for those who create their own misery intentionally, just so they can get attention and free handouts from society, kicking people in the teeth who try and help...I know that I have no compassion personally due to this.

What makes it worse, is when other people just wanting to bignote themselves show up, thinking they can do a better job at helping others than you can, but nobody listens to them either and nobody ever has the guts to say "Shivani is right, you should listen to her".

Yesterday I was at a Christmas lunch put on by the ladies at my auxillary, and I got stuck with one of them whining bitterly about how she's going through a divorce, had seperated from her husband, and yet he still shows up, abusing her, treating her like dirt and giving her anxiety attacks and she really needed help.

With that, I just said "if that is the case, why not make a clean break? Tell him where to go, and just get the hell on with it?"

Her response; "I can't do that because I still want him in my life".

I said "So, you mean to say that you are bringing this all on yourself, by wanting an abusive man to be part of your life?"

Then she says "you just don't understand".

...and I go "you're totally right there, I don't".

With that, I excused myself and moved to another table where they were discussing scrapbooking techniques. *sigh*

The other day, I tried to help somebody on here, spent hours typing up stuff that had helped me in exactly the same situation..
As my phone is not letting me copy and paste links for some reason...It is the thread about Fibromyalgia in the Healing section.

Now, I help others with the agenda they will at least acknowledge the fact I have done so...they don't have to even accept my advice or follow it, but to know they have at least heard/read it is nice, as it provides feedback for me.

I have often heard "if you have an agenda for helping people, it is better that you do not help them" and I am starting to learn that lesson. No matter what others say about "helping people" it is just far better that I do not, because nine times out of ten, they are not ready for ANY help and only act like they do but are in no way ever serious about receiving it from anybody, unless the other says "whatever you are doing now in the effort to hurt yourself and others is FINE, just keep doing more of that. You are only suffering because you're not doing enough of it, and then you will be a-okay".

Yeah, so I have pretty much had it with this myself and I leave helping others for those who know how to do so, or who aren't phased by getting told off for showing interest and concern.

It really goes to cement the way I feel about others and why it is I choose to keep to myself and ignore them.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:49 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
You are totally correct there, my love.

The past week or so, has seen me try to help many people, and yesterday I reached the startling conclusion that most people simply do not deserve my help!

Most people live in total denial, asking people for help, when they don't want to do anything to change the situation that makes them suffer in the first place and I honestly don't know how others can have compassion for those who create their own misery intentionally, just so they can get attention and free handouts from society, kicking people in the teeth who try and help...I know that I have no compassion personally due to this.

What makes it worse, is when other people just wanting to bignote themselves show up, thinking they can do a better job at helping others than you can, but nobody listens to them either and nobody ever has the guts to say "Shivani is right, you should listen to her".

Yesterday I was at a Christmas lunch put on by the ladies at my auxillary, and I got stuck with one of them whining bitterly about how she's going through a divorce, had seperated from her husband, and yet he still shows up, abusing her, treating her like dirt and giving her anxiety attacks and she really needed help.

With that, I just said "if that is the case, why not make a clean break? Tell him where to go, and just get the hell on with it?"

Her response; "I can't do that because I still want him in my life".

I said "So, you mean to say that you are bringing this all on yourself, by wanting an abusive man to be part of your life?"

Then she says "you just don't understand".

...and I go "you're totally right there, I don't".

With that, I excused myself and moved to another table where they were discussing scrapbooking techniques. *sigh*

The other day, I tried to help somebody on here, spent hours typing up stuff that had helped me in exactly the same situation..
As my phone is not letting me copy and paste links for some reason...It is the thread about Fibromyalgia in the Healing section.

Now, I help others with the agenda they will at least acknowledge the fact I have done so...they don't have to even accept my advice or follow it, but to know they have at least heard/read it is nice, as it provides feedback for me.

I have often heard "if you have an agenda for helping people, it is better that you do not help them" and I am starting to learn that lesson. No matter what others say about "helping people" it is just far better that I do not, because nine times out of ten, they are not ready for ANY help and only act like they do but are in no way ever serious about receiving it from anybody, unless the other says "whatever you are doing now in the effort to hurt yourself and others is FINE, just keep doing more of that. You are only suffering because you're not doing enough of it, and then you will be a-okay".

Yeah, so I have pretty much had it with this myself and I leave helping others for those who know how to do so, or who aren't phased by getting told off for showing interest and concern.

It really goes to cement the way I feel about others and why it is I choose to keep to myself and ignore them.

Aum Namah Shivaya

I think they all deserve your help. But how many of them are ready and willing to benefit from your help? and how much are you ready to suffer to give them that help? Those are important questions to answer because you don't want to hurt yourself trying to help people who can't currently accept or benefit from your help. That kind of battle doesn't benefit anybody, although it is a noble battle. So its like yeah, many many people deserve your help because you are a very strong and wise spirit who can give great help to those who need it. But, how many people are ready and willing and deserving of your help? and for those people who are semi-ready for your help, how much are you willing to suffer in order to help them? (if people are ready and willing and deserving, helping them is a joy, there is no suffering for you in that its all joy. but for those who are on the verge, sometimes you will suffer when helping them. its a special skill that is required when picking who to help. only true masters can help all, for people like us who are not true masters yet we need to choose who we help because our energy is limited and we can only do so much).

You wonder how someone can rationally help such people. The truth is those who help those kind of people consistently over time often do it without a reason. They go beyond reason and help others because that is who they want to be, a true healer, someone who heals because that is what they are. Many people just want to see their self as the hero and healer, so they heal but they deep down just want to be seen as a good person. They have reason to help others, so eventually they are bound to fail because eventually there will be no reason to help others. Its only those few who can go beyond reason when helping that will do it long term. Those few who can transcend reason in the pursuit of healing and helping others.

to transcend reason in the pursuit of healing means you heal because it's who you want to be. You don't heal because you want to feel good or get high on ego and emotions. to transcend reason in the pursuit of healing means you heal out of pure will power. you heal because you want to heal. It's hard to explain because to explain we need to use reason and the mind, but transcendence goes beyond the mind. bottom line. True healers transcend reason. They heal just to heal, because their soul demands it, not because their ego or emotions or desires wants it.

yeah it sucks that the majority of people are stuck in ego and stuck in their illusions. To be honest I don't have any high minded spiritual answer for that. My response to such things is often anger or frustration or irritability. Compassion is my response sometimes, but i find anger to be just as effective a lot of the times. People like that, stuck in ego and illusion, are frustrating and annoying to people like us, who have attempted to transcend ego and illusion for the good of many people. So if you try to be all high and mighty and not get angry its a bit self-defeating.

in all fairness that is just as good a response as any (not helping, or taking a break from helping. I took like a 1 year break or something so take however long you need. your desire to help will rekindle in time). A lot of people are idiots, let other idiots respond to them and placate them while you do your own thing. and know what, let the other idiots continue to help those other idiots even when you return!! truth is you can only help a small small fraction of the people out there so you need to pick your battles wisely.

and don't feel bad about your past choices to help other people. Even if they are idiots and cant accept the help, that doesn't mean you didn't benefit from giving them the help in some way. You learned something, and they did too. even if it doesn't seem like that at the time. And if you don't want to help people in the future, that is probably a good thing too. Or if you want to just tell them they are being idiots, hey that is probably OK too. The important thing is to be true to yourself and be real with others. if they are annoying you, dont ignore that and try to be high and mighty to them. You are perfectly OK telling them they are being idiots lol. there is no bad karma in having a reaction to other people, as long as you are not doing severe harm or trauma to them. If you are just telling them how you feel, and not becoming severely abusive, then it's OK.
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:59 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Yes, my dear and I totally agree with everything you said. There are people who are more qualified and better at helping other people than what I am, so the only help I could ever possibly give, is handing out their business card to anybody who asks ME for help, because I am simply not the "helping type". I neither have the personality or constitution FOR it as I am never able to give others what they NEED, because I can only give them what I HAVE, and that is never good enough.
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:08 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Yes, my dear...There are people who are more qualified and better at helping people than what I am, so the only help I could ever possibly give, is handing out their business card to anybody who asks ME for help, because I am simply not the "helping type". I neither have the personality or constitution FOR it as I am never able to give others what they NEED, because I can only give them what I HAVE, and that is never good enough.

Maybe your place is to just have good conversations with them then. To just talk about your knowledge, and ask them to share their knowledge with you too.

If you are not giving advice and just talking, what's the harm in that?
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:24 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Originally Posted by shivatar
Maybe your place is to just have good conversations with them then. To just talk about your knowledge, and ask them to share their knowledge with you too.

If you are not giving advice and just talking, what's the harm in that?
Exactly!...or I could just take my cue from everyone else...

"Oh really? Is that so? That must be so awful for you...you poor, poor thing...how do you even manage to live? It must be so hard for you just getting through each day....I bet you wish that you could make it all just stop..."

Anyway, I can talk to people about stuff, as long as they don't ask me for advice, or about my personal/private life...or politics...It doesn't leave much, does it?

In the New Year, I am going to be going to the Shiva Temple a lot more and regularly..
...Well, I NEVER go there...Just so I can practice my communication and helping skills in an environment where I feel comfortable with doing so, and where I can get to "be myself" because the whole environment is dedicated TO just that!....sorta why people become monks and nuns, I am guessing...and they may be able to teach me how to "help others" with Shiva's Grace and blessings.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:55 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Exactly!...or I could just take my cue from everyone else...

"Oh really? Is that so? That must be so awful for you...you poor, poor thing...how do you even manage to live? It must be so hard for you just getting through each day....I bet you wish that you could make it all just stop..."

Anyway, I can talk to people about stuff, as long as they don't ask me for advice, or about my personal/private life...or politics...It doesn't leave much, does it?

In the New Year, I am going to be going to the Shiva Temple a lot more and regularly..
...Well, I NEVER go there...Just so I can practice my communication and helping skills in an environment where I feel comfortable with doing so, and where I can get to "be myself" because the whole environment is dedicated TO just that!....sorta why people become monks and nuns, I am guessing...and they may be able to teach me how to "help others" with Shiva's Grace and blessings.

That sounds amazing. There are no Shiva temples around here :( I just have to make-do with my little at home temple to lord Shiva.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:41 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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Interesting article on kundalini yoga, thank you for sharing. love the associated comments too.
For me, I follow the path of bhakti, as others here do.
In my time here the biggest thing I have learned is that associating with an Avatar, who is here on earth now or ones from the past, is a very good path to take.
Funny thing is, most people I share this golden nugget of information with (and these days its very few), treat my suggestion as they would treat a stranger on the train asking for money to buy a ticket and then asking for their address to send the borrowed sum back to.
If there is a god and that divine being decides, for whatever reason, to send a part of themselves to the earth to help us, surely it must be the best logic to immerse oneself in that divine aspects guidance?
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  #20  
Old 15-12-2018, 03:37 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I have just been doing some holotropic breathwork for the very first time...
Talk about having a "you know what" without doing "you know what" to get there...I like this.
https://youtu.be/ecSMPobj62E

Aum Namah Shivaya
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