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  #91  
Old 18-06-2019, 06:09 PM
Sarian Sarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jatd
I don't know that I ever wrote the full story here on this page. I would love to write a book but words seem to fail me. How do you put on paper the depth this journey takes?

This all happened to me back in 2011/2012 so it has been a while... I've learned alot through that time!
I wrote so much about my relationship, the highs/low. The sheer bliss and the excruciating pain. He allowed me to write it all to him so I have them. I have always wanted to write a book. When I wrote it out to him, it flowed but over the last few years, something seemed to crush my flow. I'm trying to get it back but I've also evolved so I feel like I have to sit and collect it all, find quiet time and place and just let it flow like it had before. It honestly felt like I was channeling. Yes, it is hard to put on paper the depth of the journey. I still do not understand it. But anyway, I've evolved so much, it wouldn't be so much about him, but myself, growth and yet the ever constant confusion. I'd still like to write a book simply about the relationship.

Today I had a huge blow up with this man and felt if I didn't get out of this place now I'd explode.
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  #92  
Old 19-06-2019, 11:45 AM
JozefMera JozefMera is offline
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Thank you very much. This is discussion I've been looking for for a long time. Thank you for your views as they are valuable. In a sense I find them similar to my wife's. Although she's not polyamorous in her words. My yesterday thought in the evening with her (that I didn't share) was about finding my balance. Something like that to be happy with you I need to be open to other relationships as well because without it I feel like it's not balanced or fair in a sense. I didn't share it yet as I'm not still sure if this is what I want or even if this is something that needs to be "declared". She says there is soul connection between us too. She called it soul partner (I didn't see this term here on forum). But I was never opened to any other connection as I put all me to one and expected the same. I need to think it through or rather feel through it as thinking is more than enough.

Btw my wife wrote a short ebook on this topic a wile ago. However it's in Czech only so if won't be helpful too much here.

I feel more peace in myself last days. I hope I'll be able to focus on myself more and not pay attention to all those terrible sounds of facebook and screens.
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  #93  
Old 19-06-2019, 07:03 PM
Jatd Jatd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarian
I wrote so much about my relationship, the highs/low. The sheer bliss and the excruciating pain. He allowed me to write it all to him so I have them. I have always wanted to write a book. When I wrote it out to him, it flowed but over the last few years, something seemed to crush my flow. I'm trying to get it back but I've also evolved so I feel like I have to sit and collect it all, find quiet time and place and just let it flow like it had before. It honestly felt like I was channeling. Yes, it is hard to put on paper the depth of the journey. I still do not understand it. But anyway, I've evolved so much, it wouldn't be so much about him, but myself, growth and yet the ever constant confusion. I'd still like to write a book simply about the relationship.

Today I had a huge blow up with this man and felt if I didn't get out of this place now I'd explode.


Yes this is the same for me. It's not about him anymore, i am not sure it ever was.. it was just the only thing i had to cling to ... but this was about me, my rebirth, my growth, my transformation. I just don't know where to start ..or when I have the time to really sink into my thoughts.
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  #94  
Old 19-06-2019, 07:46 PM
Ciona Ciona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JozefMera
Thank you very much. This is discussion I've been looking for for a long time. Thank you for your views as they are valuable. In a sense I find them similar to my wife's. Although she's not polyamorous in her words. My yesterday thought in the evening with her (that I didn't share) was about finding my balance. Something like that to be happy with you I need to be open to other relationships as well because without it I feel like it's not balanced or fair in a sense. I didn't share it yet as I'm not still sure if this is what I want or even if this is something that needs to be "declared". She says there is soul connection between us too. She called it soul partner (I didn't see this term here on forum). But I was never opened to any other connection as I put all me to one and expected the same. I need to think it through or rather feel through it as thinking is more than enough.

Btw my wife wrote a short ebook on this topic a wile ago. However it's in Czech only so if won't be helpful too much here.

I feel more peace in myself last days. I hope I'll be able to focus on myself more and not pay attention to all those terrible sounds of facebook and screens.

You are very welcome JozefMera.
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  #95  
Old 15-09-2019, 10:26 AM
JozefMera JozefMera is offline
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Hello after a while. Some time has passed and there were ups and downs. But now it's really serious. Can you help?

For me it's better as she pretty much stopped texting him. But once again she wanted to meet him but they were not able to agree on time. When I heard that from her, yes there was a place for misunderstandings... but at the end - she was waiting for him in the city center for some time and he just replied something like we agreen on different day... Details are not so important but this made her really upset. Like really very much as something similar happend to them 2 times before (at least that I now about). So she felt like he doesn't value her at all.

So... long story short. After two days we went on a weekend to the hotel (which I selected and btw was the same name as the twinflame person I don't know why I chosen it, maybe I wanted to prove "I'm not afraid" or whatever). Weather was not nice so we were inside most of the time. Warm water in the shower was not functioning so we didn't enjoy the warmth too much. On the way back home we ate in reastaurant - which is the turning point - she ate something from tomatoes and ended in a hospital for 3 days. Now she's back at home but still tired and trying to sleep. Why I'm posting it here? Her friend told her - that this can be somehow connected with the old energy she doesn't want to let go. And the old energy is as always him... Did any of you had so serious experiences with letting go? Like heart pain, weakness... literally days sleeping... and if so, what helped you?

Thank you very much!
Jozef
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  #96  
Old 15-09-2019, 03:44 PM
Ziusudra Ziusudra is offline
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Jozef...

The other guy/soul is irrelevant to your marriage.

I suggest that you start asking yourself and your wife difficult questions about your two's relationship and find truth between two of you.

1. Are both of you truly happy in your marriage? - even before this event?
2. How strong are both of you's commitment to your marriage?
3. Are there any psychological, emotional, and personality complications/disorders including any serious addictions and/or abuses that make the continuation of your marriage to be impossible?

You two may have to make some serious decisions.
If she developed dementia or diagnosed with a cancer, yes, you made a marital commitment to stay with her and to help her.
However, your current situation is outside of the marital vows and commitment.
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  #97  
Old 15-09-2019, 03:44 PM
Ziusudra Ziusudra is offline
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...........dup
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  #98  
Old 15-09-2019, 06:07 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Jozef, hello and I'm so sorry for your trooubles.
I went back and read several of your posts but may have missed some.
It's been two years since you became aware of this and you say your wife works closely with this man. Have they been sexually intimate or is that what the failed meet-ups were about, and it never got physical? Was it an emotional affair, or was it both?

Regardles...in general I would say this. Marriage is, like all the rest of humanity and our human experience, undergoing a foundational shift. But as women had no virtually no rights and no economic footing even a century ago...marriage and partner relationships are where we are seeing some of the most fundamental shifts and chasms.

Historically, marriage was not about authentic love. It was about survival and legitimacy of legacy. Now everyone's expectations have evolved but our spiritually and emotional capacity to meet those expectations often falls short of what we expect from others. Meaning, we cannot expect or demand authentic love but be unwilling or unable to give it. And no one else is ever responsible for your happiness, full stop.

This is going to cause many marriages to fail during this great transition...either because one or both partners cannot give the authentic love they demand in return. Or because they expect the other to patch all their holes & fix them and make them happy...without doing their own work and walking their own journey, alongside one another in mutual affirmation & support. So...it may be that it is time for your own marriage to end...as to that, I cannot say. But there are definitely more and less honourable ways to go about making that determination and/or that decision. You have been honourable and IMO, your wife has chosen a lot of dishonourable actions up through this point, and as a direct result, she has not been able to speak with clarity on the situation.

We can't look only to another person to meet all our needs and expect them to/demand that they make us happy -- whether our husband &/or our closest soul family. So the idea that she has spent two years keeping you dangling in all this whilst she sorts where the two of them are with one another, is almost inexcusable. And constitutes some real emotional trauma and brutality put upon you. You will need to decide if you value a relationship which looks like it has over the past two years, or if you are better off elsewhere, apart from this.

IMO, she needs to own where she is at and honour her partnership with you, or else leave and let you move on. Even if this is 100% a genuine close soul family member, their interaction never had to be framed as a partnership. It could have been framed as a friendship that would only ever be above-board and inclusive of you as her partner. The fact that neither she nor this other bloke went the way of right-alignment in friendship whilst she is married and that they still have not got there...is rather shady and underhanded on both their parts.

IMO finding a close soul fam member is something to celebrate in authentic love but should never attempt to interfere with a marriage or other relationships on the ground. And that should have been something the two of them clarified from the start, since they work together, if they were both above board and if they were grounded ethically and morally in their centres.

Loving him as a person and as a close soul fam member (if that is true) doesn't mean she has to dump her husband. Nor should another ever be the excuse we use to get out of one relationship. Nor should the existing partner be a crutch till the next one is queued up and ready. All of that is really misaligned behaviour, IMO, and I'm so sorry you've been on the receiving end of all that.

If she's not committed to the marriage however, then she's the weak link and you cannot force her to be a solid and loving partner who is present for you, if she is not. What you CAN do is decide what you will do and what is acceptable to you.


And BTW...everyone is potentially a generic "soul mate" as we're all interconnected, so I find that term to be a bit general. Clearly, some "soul mates" are going to be a lot closer and a lot more resonant than others, LOL :)

Both men and women fall into this trap of romanticising the poorly-understood concept. However, men almost always expect and tie sexual gratification to the term "my soul mate". Have they forgotten about men who are also close soul family? Their brothers, best mates, and so forth? What about women they're not having sex with? Their mums, their sisters, their grannies, their besties who were girls growing up, and all the rest? Why is it only a soul mate if you're penetrating her, hahaha? Because...that's the thing most men still see at the core of a woman's worth. And other men apparently don't count either if not a sexual interest. Sad in the extreme.

Regardless if they've slept together or not, this other gent knows she's married and at some deeper level values the commitment to her...even if she has not been as committed on her part to you as she has expected you to be toward her. Many gents will stop pursuit if the (married) woman doesn't want to screw around with "no strings"...whilst many others will have sex but stop pursuit the moment she talks about getting serious or if married, about leaving her husband.

It may be your wife thought the soul connection was deeper but in fact, if he can't get sex without the "baggage" of her emotions and her probable desire for some level of commitment from him, then she may be disappointed. Despite whatever deeper connection they may have had, many men will discount it entirely (at least on the surface) if they can't get sex...and in most cases, without any strings.

It's become almost cliché that too many men expect a "soul mate" to give them sex no strings because of this amazing connection. They use the soul connection, they pimp it out, so to speak, for the free sex they can get, the end. Clearly, this is often crushing for women who wanted to receive authentic love (which IS no strings, if it is truly present). But for partnerships, it all comes down to whether or not anyone is willing to show up for the other person day-to-day, to be there and to be kind and present for them on the ground and to say it publicly. To commit to one another and promise not to screw around. Yes, integrity still matters...having close soul fam doesn't mean integrity is out the door.

It seems the other gent couldn't show up and commit, after two years of hanging with a married woman. Are you surprised? Maybe his conscience got to him and he didn't want to screw with your lives in such a base way any longer. Regardless, IMO your wife is truly a weak link in this marriage and it's not clear if your marriage is viable going forward. It's not a partnership if you're the only one showing up to it every day. Do you have kids you also need to care for?

I hope you can focus on having some conversations with your wife and seeing if she understands that loving others and having soul family in your life are wonderful things. But they have nothing to do with your marriage unless she isn't committed and can't show up for you anyway. You two can always bring friends and fam into your marriage...that's normal.

What's not normal is to have emotional &/or physical affairs whilst one or both of them is married...and to then try to chalk it up to being "soul mates" as the reason for choosing to relate to one another day-to-day as partners when we're not available as partners. We can feel however we like, we can show authentic love in platonic ways (simple kindness, compassion, etc), but regardless, how we choose to act with others (e.g., when we are committed) is a conscious decision we make in each moment.

If she had said...I need to leave because I'm not committed to the marriage and let's get divorced, then at least that is honourable and you would be free to move on.

If she had said, I made friends with this gent I work with and if he can be your friend too, then he's a keeper. And he is and will remain strictly my friend -- then IMO that could be ideal...but if and only if they are both very clear about respecting boundaries and respecting YOU, as well.



BTW, the fact that this happened at the office is IMO a particularly bad sign that neither of them possesses great moral and ethical clarity and fortitude. I.e. that they are weak in these areas...and that it will be a challenge for your wife to address these vulnerabilities in herself, which she would need to commit to doing scrupulously, if you remain in the marriage. All the love in the world from you [or any other bloke or "soul mate"] cannot fill her cup until she patches all the holes in her vessel. And until she does that, she will be prone to cheating and to advances by other "soul mates" who recognise that she is emotionally needy and responsive to this line of predation, so to speak.

Because TBH...IMO if he were truly her close soul fam...he would never have entered into and remained in any kind of affair with her (physical or emotional) and likewise, she would realise this and would have also abstained. Instead, she would have welcomed him in your mutual lives as a FRIEND to you both. (And he would want and accept that, on behalf of her highest good, and would not seek to use her either sexually or for an emotional affair).

I send you much love & light, and wish you all the best.
Remember to love and honour yourself and your own highest good equally to hers, as she may not be capable of loving and honouring you in this way, at this time.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

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  #99  
Old 16-09-2019, 02:08 PM
JozefMera JozefMera is offline
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Hi, thank for the very rich feedback. I need to defend my wife here also. Maybe it's because you read only few pages backwards, or maybe even me crying aloud too much in strong emotions here.

So to answer few of your questions
- she is not working with him. (I don't want to put yet there...) They met at her work - he was/is her client.
- no physical affair (in that case I would be probably in simpler situation about decision to leave)
- we have one daughter, she's 10 so yes we need to take care of her but she's pretty smart and feeling things around

She did serious thinking after last winter - I wrote about this few pages earlier. She literally was asking herself if she is pulling my leg or seriosly want to be with me. And she discovered she wants to be with me. It was after I gave her space 3 weeks to be alone and just deal with this/him and tell me as I couldn't stand it anymore. She came back and it was nice to know she wants me. But it was pretty hard. When he was ok, they were texting each day more than hour. I didn't count exactly but from my point of view it was really much for a friend. Therefore I started asking around this twinflame thing here...

And now - he has a girlfriend (probably), my wife told me. And it looks now he doesn't care so much about my wife. Which is in a sense good for me. But probably bad for her. There are serious physical troubles - weaknesses and dizzyness - this is what I meant in last comment. Is this something twinflame related? For me it's something like different universe as I don't fully believe or grasp those things. And is beyond my understanding of romantic love - you are in love or not... But not love someone and also someone else... And yes I'm a bit surprised he doesn't care anymore - as he promised a world to her. But my gut said to me after he has a girlfriend, it would be over. And now it also seems like. Well not sure. What is also good that my wife's visions has changed - she no longer sees her future with him as co-worker. Which is good. But everything changes every second so I'm hearing those messages but don't want to rely on it and then be depressed or shocked by change. Now when she's so physically weak she much more express her love to me. It's so nice to take care of her. But why this has had to happen to show it?

So now - I'm not deciding to stay or not. I have decided to stay. I wanted to help her the physical things. Or you help me how I can be of help :).

Thank you for hearing my thoughts, support and I wish you all the best too.
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  #100  
Old 18-09-2019, 12:47 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Jozef hello and thanks for your response. My first response was..ai ai ai...I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole. But...you are a sincere and caring person, and hence why you find yourself here after 2 yrs of mindscrewage and having your heart put through a meat grinder. So here I am responding again, LOL...

Quote:
So to answer few of your questions
- she is not working with him. (I don't want to put yet there...) They met at her work - he was/is her client.
- no physical affair (in that case I would be probably in simpler situation about decision to leave)
- we have one daughter, she's 10 so yes we need to take care of her but she's pretty smart and feeling things around

For your sake, I am not going to mince words...

They met at work -- this is bad news as your wife is not nearly as strong emotionally and spiritually as she needs to be, in order to be in a loving and committed marriage. Otherwise she would only ever have considered him as a friend, even if a true and good one (and it doesn't seem like he would qualify).

I am 95% sure he would have banged her if she had been even more gullible and had bought into his "soul mate" song & dance. I'm actually 100% sure but I leave 5% for a 1 standard deviation of error, hahaha.

After loads of drama and 2 yrs gone the gent has realised the sex was only going to happen if they became a "thing"...so he's finally moved on. I have to say, this doesn't sound at ALL like a close soul mate situation. Granted, I'm not in it and maybe he is and all, but he's such a cad why bother, LOL? He's not trustworthy as a client, nor as a personal contact as he had a long-term emotional affair with your wife. He was happy to inflict collateral damage on her, her marriage, and on you, on the offchance he got something out of it for his work or his penis or his ego. But clearly, he viewed it and treated it all as just a casual deal for him and he's moved on.

I'm not saying he didn't feel anything or have a real soul connection with her or with you either, for that matter. I'm saying, even if that were the case...even so...he has not honoured her or you as his beloved close soul family. He has dishonoured her and dishonoured you, both. That is IMO not at ALL how you treat your close soul fam. So either he's not your close soul fam, and he just used that to work his angle or "his game", or else maybe he is, but he's a shady cad and would rather use and abuse his close soul family than treat them well or respect them as equals. Rather than considering YOUR highest good equally to his own.

Likewise, your wife too has inflicted collateral damage on herself and on you. Likewise, she too has used and abused her marriage and you, on the offchance that this other gent would...dunno...commit to her and be faithful? It doesn't seem like his style. Close soul family or not, if he's not a decent gent at core, no connection will magically tranform him into one. LOL...he has a mum just like all the rest and I'm sure his mum still loves him. All the love in the world won't magically transform him and it doesn't mean he's still not a shady cad. And I'm sorry for you both if he IS actually close soul fam and sees you only as suckers because you DO have a connection with him and would actually tolerate his sorry *rse.

Now...as to your wife. She is a much milder version of him, but it's still the same behaviour. And she too has shown that -- if someone pays her some attention -- she too cannot be trusted to be the same sort of mature, loving, and committed adult who can give authentic love rather than just taking it, using it, or relying on it as a crutch till something better comes along.

You can forgive someone AND still love them. But it doesn't mean that you must stay with them. And it certainly doesn't mean they can or will ever be for you what you are for them. Nor what you need from them. What you have from your wife is what you see. Someone who will cheat in some way, who will shred you emotionally, who can take but does not have much to give (unless she needs you).

This is who she is and she is with you by default because she didn't get what she wanted from him on her terms. Because he isn't capable of it, of course and he is being true to who he is. She is being less honest, because she dragged you along whilst she waited to see if HE would change and improve HIS character, even whilst SHE didn't.

I think you are a good man but too many men are overly sentimental about women because we are cute and fluffy and you get sex from us. If you cannot get past her looks or her sex and their hold on you, no matter how badly she treats you and your marriage, then just like with the shady cad, you become a tool that can be used and manipulated. But by her rather than the shady cad. Likewise, if your love and commitment to the idealised version of her (and what you'd hoped she would be) blinds you to the reality of who she actually is, once more you become someone who can be manipulated and use, rather than the treasured, valued partner you'd hoped she'd see you as.

Everyone gets old eventually, LOL...what remains is the heart of gold. Giving you sex doesn't mean she loves you faithfully or truly. Taking your affection and support when she's been rejected by another man doesn't mean she is committed to the marriage, or that she is committed to supporting you (instead of just taking from you). You have the last 2 years laid out in front of your eyes. Please keep them open, and when you've had a chance to finally catch your breath, please try to look at this from a place of equanimity as well as lovingkindness.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

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