Any Science or Religion without Truth is both lame AND blind.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Well said.


True.

Well that is correct with minor but real and important qualification . God is like sea and we are like tides . Though both are made of water , both do not signify always the same thing .

Hitesh Shah,

Well said, as well. Perhaps you would consider a minor, but critical, revision to your metaphor: "It is only the sea which ebbs and flows, whether called tides, depths, shallows streams, eddies, waters, or consciousness."

Thanks for your wisdom...

All is One. We are That.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Busby

'where are those miracles which happen outside universal laws (as we know them)? I'm talking about walking on water or water turning into wine.
.

I agree with Janielee description of Miracles and there are abundant such examples. Few more
1.All metals are solid . Known exception is mercury (So not miracle as per u)
2. When heated all solids turn to liquid and then to gas . Again there are exceptions which too are know and not miracle according to u.
3. Water made of Hydrogen which is highly inflammable and oxygen which is supporter of combustion . And its compound H2o ie water is not flammable.

Now the reason for not considering all these as miracles because its all universal laws (as we know them) . Here I may quote Newton who is said to have this just before his death which very well shades light on limits of our knowledge and vastness of universe.

I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.”

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

God can't be seen by humans........ and live.

BigJohn,

You are absolutely right!

The reason that "God can't be seen by humans........ and live."...

...is because the"human" would then realize Who He has not been all along (human)!

We have always been Who we truly are, awaiting our own remembrance, on Earth, that I AM THAT I AM as in Heaven. Guthrio

Reference: http://www.thechristmind.org/the-law.htm

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by guthrio

Hitesh Shah,

Well said, as well. Perhaps you would consider a minor, but critical, revision to your metaphor: "It is only the sea which ebbs and flows, whether called tides, depths, shallows streams, eddies, waters, or consciousness."

Thanks for your wisdom...

All is One. We are That.

Reference: http://www.thechristmind.org/the-law.htm

[Jesse1972]

Both truth and science can vary, depending on the situation. 100 years ago science would have told you cell phones were impossible. Obviously that isn't true, but it WAS true 100 hundred years ago... or was it? If we were actually as smart as we think we are, we would realize we don't know much'a nuttin' :)

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Jesse1972

Both truth and science can vary, depending on the situation. 100 years ago science would have told you cell phones were impossible. Obviously that isn't true, but it WAS true 100 hundred years ago... or was it? If we were actually as smart as we think we are, we would realize we don't know much'a nuttin' :)

Jesse1972,

Welcome to Spiritual Forums,

I agree with everything you've said 'cept the nuttin' part. Why? 'cause we see how much we've come to know that was just waiting for us to know it, right?

Here are some of my thoughts 'bout it. Enjoy!

P.S. Looking forward to more of yours!.....

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...7&postcount=66

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...3&postcount=67

Originally Posted by Busby

I've already responded to the 'miracles around us question' - of course it is all a miracle but that really isn't any feedback on my question which is 'where are those miracles which happen outside universal laws (as we know them)? I'm talking about walking on water or water turning into wine.

As far as I know there have never been any such miracles (except those reported two thousand years ago from faery tale land).

I sometimes wish people would read things properly through instead of jumping to the habitual.

So you will never be satisfied...laughs

Got it

Jl

PS on your post of comprehension, I read your post, forgive me if I forgot your prior thread context, it has no significant meaning in my mind so I probably forgot that.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

I agree with Janielee description of Miracles and there are abundant such examples. Few more
1.All metals are solid . Known exception is mercury (So not miracle as per u)
2. When heated all solids turn to liquid and then to gas . Again there are exceptions which too are know and not miracle according to u.
3. Water made of Hydrogen which is highly inflammable and oxygen which is supporter of combustion . And its compound H2o ie water is not flammable.

Now the reason for not considering all these as miracles because its all universal laws (as we know them) . Here I may quote Newton who is said to have this just before his death which very well shades light on limits of our knowledge and vastness of universe.

Busby has a heart that requires and demand specificity, perhaps God will grant him that.

Who knows? I do not. I have experienced miracles, and to me they are as divine and real as any and all...

I don’t intend to exhibit it, nor do I need agreement from Busby or anyone else as to what a miracle is,

The reality is, if someone genuinely turned water into wine, someone, humans would corrupt it anyway, either through belief, supposition, accusation, hysteria, Altair’s theories or condemnation, there would be no benefit,

To my way of seeing, god and life and the world does not owe anyone the evidence they demand, this has nothing to do with our purpose and life.

And ironically when Love is made true, the miracles are probably endless.

Love

Jl

[Busby]

Originally Posted by guthrio

Brother Busby, and all,

No evasion of Truth is possible, because Truth is what we are.

Here's are a couple of perspectives for your consideration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyN1Fzrp2PM The Secret Beyond Matter.

4 What you put out is what you get back.
The "outside" is a reflection of the "inside".
Physical reality is actually a 3-dimensional holographic mirror:
Your physical reality is just a holographic reflection of
what you most strongly believe to be true. And like a mirror, physical reality
will not change unless you change first (change what you most strongly believe). https://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/

The miracle, if it must be so labeled, is the paradigm shift that knowledge of its meaning opens for each of us....

"A person convinced against their will...remains unconvinced still".

...until they find the answer(s) to their questions, themselves.

Hope this, and these other references, below help you, as well. As to seeing miracles....

I've never seen one, nor can I in my long life recall ever having seen one reported or filmed or commentated., as you stated...

YOU ARE THE MIRACLE!

Suffice it to say that There Is No Name that can contain this Truth, regardless what it is called. any more that our perceptions can be named. Do you see?

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...67&postcount=8 You ARE The Technology

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...0&postcount=45

Thanks guthrio for your reply.

Let's leave my central question lying by the wayside which was - just to repeat - show me a miracle, one or anything that has avoided the physical laws which abound around us. I was simply hoping, without any sense of demanding, or sense of hope really that someone would be able to give an example.

Thanks too for the you tube link, this is very similar to the one I recommend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

I look upon the place we call the universe as well as the sparrow sitting on the bush in front of my window as nothing other than a large and small continual ocean of feedbacks existing in a constantly forming and reforming condition or state. We, as individuals and as collectives depend upon energy levels and responses and utterings of these feedbacks for the universe we see in front of us. We are in a permanent information exchange from the moment we are born into given circumstances, and, depending upon the information the environment holds at that starting moment we are off on the track the initial information (or feedback) likes to pick and choose what we see, this to eventually develop our own position in this permanent kaleidoscope of appearances - that which we call the outside world.

This kaleidoscope, or as you call it Hologram, is the only true reality apart from that which we call the creator. This has always, or more often or not, been misunderstood and has led to all the various belief systems which circulate in billions of veins.

From this background stem all sciences, all karma beliefs and religious explanations, ideas and theories, inventions, evolution, politics, professions, arts - the list is endless. We completely underestimate this space in which we react. For that is what it is, sheer reaction. How we react is up to us.

[JosephineB]

as well as the sparrow sitting on the bush in front of my window

There sure is something about the birds.