So, God wants us to be perfect, right?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes, 'you' have a 'way' to 'go' to get to the point of being 'nuclear' chilled.

I probably shouldn't have given up pot back in the 90s...

[Shivani Devi]

Thank you, David. I am touched...the internet does seem just a tad impersonal though...but that's just me.

Aahhh...George Harrison!!!

Now you have got my full attention. lol

Back in my youth, he inspired me like nobody else did! George Harrison...Mike Pinder from The Moody Blues and Richard Bach...

Aaah those days when I would be listening to "All Things Must Pass" and reading "Illusions - The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" simultaneously.

...until I graduated to Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse and discovered Tangerine Dream.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello there GS

I think it's probably a combo of both what is available and what you require. Though female this lifetime, I still have the pale colouring of several lives past as both men and women. Though was dark-haired in a few, mostly it's been a variety of pale. As men I was generally tall and strong. Life was just hugely easier as a man, no matter the **** oppressive regimes and so forth that we suffered under & endured.

Finally, a bit taller and a bit stronger and sportier now as a woman too. After 2 prior lifetimes as vulnerable woman in extremely oppressive & abusive lives, I can say with a good deal of certainty that your strength and your constitution make a huge difference in your capacity and mood -- and even more so, if you are vulnerable...since I was, having suffered violence in many prior lives, and since I had some challenges last go round. I was oppressed and abandoned and I may have been mute or had trouble speaking much. I needed the strength to cope emotionally and I'm quite certain I conveyed as much after the last go round...it is a huge challenge being a woman and as I said, the emotional and spiritual requirements alone are enormously challenging. I think if the vessel is resonant with your needs, you can take it and otherwise you may need to pass.

Hi there 7L

What's available and what you require? I haven't got around to reading David's post yet but that was one of the questions I had concerning Life's Purpose. If we can't choose our DNA/bodies as Spirit, what then? It only takes a gene to be switched the other way, our brains become hard-wired differently and we can't process Spirituality. Divinity has far less to do with our Spirituality than many would like to think, our DNA is a key factor. DNA also has a say in (a)Whether or not we believe in God and (b)our definition - because it is a definition - of perfect.


I'm actually not disagreeing with you because I'm a huge fan of Life's Purpose etc but what I can't figure is the "resonant with your needs" part, because there are just too many factors that need to be an 'exact match'. And "you may need to pass?" There are sometimes things that need to be done in certain Lifetimes, and at certain ages in our Lives that have to synchronise with others. It's kinda hard to meet your childhood sweetheart when you passed and taken a body many years later and she's grown old in the meantime.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Well you should give it a go. Those pale eyes can be from many places, for certain, but my guess is your DNA will be more or less similar to my son's...he too is tall and blond with light eyes, though like mine they are not blue. There is nothing surprising...mostly UK, W Europe, etc I mentioned as we've all been on the island for so long. But the % Scandinavian & surrounding areas is a bit higher for my son due to his dad, whose also got more of the taller Scots...you may similarly nudge into the 5, 10, or 15% hahaha In the end...I think these DNA tests are interesting enough but will not tell you too much you don't already know. The various migration related info may be more interesting.

I'll have to get around to it one day. I tried my family tree a while back but I lost track of it very quickly. 'Back in the day' illegitimate children were given to relative or family friends to bring up, and that's what happened with both of my parents and my grandmother. That's not documented so it doesn't show up in the genealogy but it does stop a search in its tracks. DNA won't be so easy to stop though and it might be interesting just to find out.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I do think there is genetic memory and they've done transgenerational studies of the effects of war and poverty in the older gens on the younger ones. So there is something there. It's mixed in with the lives your soul has chosen to experience, which IMO are far, far fewer than the thousands of previous gens of physical forebears that we each have. There are also great opportunities for healing and reconciliation within each of us, regarding all of these aspects of who we are.

Some of us are still afraid of the dark and although I haven't seen any in a while, there have been discussions around 'Light good, dark scary' in the forums. Perhaps a genetic throw-back from the time we were prey for lions and tigers and bears, oh my. If we could unlock genetic memory not just of our own but in how we were interacting with each other, what stories would that tell of history and Spirituality?

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

These are terms and concepts we can use to get at the processes that are at work here regarding how we manifest who we are more truly. At present, that will involve manifestation into the physical realm since that is where we are incarnated and tethered. There is the less material ("spirit") and the rather more material ("physical"). As always, language is limited but we do the best we can.

Agenda and doctrines seem to rule the day, and granted language is a bit of a handicap. To be honest all this 'who we are more truly' is something that resonates with me very badly. In Spirit everything is perfection, we are Unconditional Love but Utopia is very dystopian because where everything is perfection and Unconditional Loving there's only stagnation.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

That's another complex topic. In brief (if possible, LOL), I think no matter what, when, or where, every moment in the world is an opportunity to consciously choose to manifest authentic love in the world.

Sometimes, we do better than at other times. Sometimes we are better able (more aware, more loving, more skilled, more endowed or enabled) and sometimes we are better motivated. Sometimes we have many choices readily or apparently at hand and sometimes only a few.

But regardless of what any other person does or does not do...we have the option to choose for ourselves. AND so do they. We may consciously choose to make lemonade out of the lemons, and that is generally always the wisest course of action. We may do so sooner or we may do so much later. There may be good reasons for either. Regardless, after several lifetimes, at a certain point, we don't need to be abused or oppressed to know it's not ideal for anyone. AND if another chooses to do it -- whether to us personally or to the multitudes -- it's on them.

Do we forgive them?
If we know them personally, then it's best to reconcile all round but that requires contrition and true growth and change of heart. Absent that we can always forgive privately whenever possible and move on...it's then just a personal letting go. A liberation at a basic level, at least, even if not at the profound level of healing that reconciliation provides.

If we don't know them and they abused dozens or thousands or millions, forgiveness and compassion are more abstract and the authentic love is more authentically rooted in justice.

Jesus said that we should Love our neighbours/enemies as ourselves and every Christian worth their salt would say something similar - and not just Christians neither because it's been expressed in so many other religions.

What I do know for sure is that if I hadn't been abused my Life would have been very different, because at the time the abuse was a counter-balance to other things that were going on at the time. Because I was 'changed' it's affected so many and if I had the time to relive my Life I wouldn't change a damned thing. My only real regret is that I never got to look my abuser in the eye and give him my forgiveness, the question was whether I was doing it to spite him or not.


Going back to the OP, that's what I would think God wants - for things like this to happen to us. And indeed it does time and time again, and in far worse circumstances than I went through. That has my admiration, not a treatise on an ideology that has as much 'substance' as a whimsy - albeit a very Spiritually technical and eloquent one.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

It's true that we don't want to ever step too far away from the connection we each have to the larger human and Gaian community.

I think folks often use the term perfection of/perfecting self or the world as a way to express that very same concept of making the world a better place. Much of it is not only the "man in the mirror" idea but also the idea that when we are better aligned to our core nature, to our centres, that we indeed become more of the love we are at centre. And therefore, we will be better motivated and better able to be and do lovingkindness and equanimity.

Peace & blessings
7L

Our connections are becoming more and more tenuous on the whole I think, people are connected from themselves and others and off-the-grid living seems to be gaining popularity.


To be honest I'm not sure that we are Loving kindness and equanimity at our core, or at least perhaps Spirit's perspective of what constitutes Love seems to be different enough to the human perspective. If there was a Karmic Agreement between my abuser and I? Perhaps a better question is, if I came here for my Spiritual development did I Love myself enough to give myself this experience? To me that's one of the few questions that point to a meaningful answer.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Somewhere? Over the rainbow?

Maybe you would find reading some more edifying. But then people generally only 'find' what confirms (affirms?) their present belief and spirit orinetation patterns.

The Wizard of Oz is one of the most Spiritual films I've ever seen, but to be fair I find Spiritual films a crashing bore. The other 'Spiritual' films include 2110:A Space Odyssey and BladeRunner. Bladerunner is surprising like Spirituality although it's also very Nietzsche-esque.



I really don't have an issue with what you've quoted there, I'm actually a Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations junkie and many years ago I was given a vision from my Higher Self which was pretty much along the lines that you've provided. However, my lateral thinking won't allow me to take anything by rote. For us to fulfil certain Karmic Obligations we have to be a certain type of person, if your Obligation is to be Spiritual then you need a brain that can process that kind of information. A flick of your genes and goodbye Spirituality, how does that bode for an Obligation? And yes, I know it's very simplistic but there's no point in getting too over-complicated. My own Spirituality is definitely in the genes, my grandmother had a Spiritual nature and my mother is clairvoyant, but my father was a farmer and not in the least bit interested and would have dismissed it as hocum. I guess there's that aspect to my Spirituality too, hence trying to find an answer to this that I can Live with.


So while I can't actually disagree with anything you've given me here, there are still some fundamental questions that haven't been answered - like genetics. I like being contrary for the sake of it because being contrary means I can take a whole different perspective on it and gain from that. And sometimes answers kill the fun of exploring for the sake of it - and that's what really inspires me.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So while I can't actually disagree with anything you've given me here, there are still some fundamental questions that haven't been answered - like genetics. I like being contrary for the sake of it because being contrary means I can take a whole different perspective on it and gain from that. And sometimes answers kill the fun of exploring for the sake of it - and that's what really inspires me.

The implicit 'answer' is that if your 'soul' chooses the body it incarnates in for the 'its' purposes because said body and its environment 'sets up' particular opportunities and challenges (which 'suit' its purposes), then it (you?) has in effect chosen said body's 'gene' and 'environment' determined operational system.

You seem to be 'avoiding' the significance of said 'answer' as it pertains to your present life(time) instead of exploring it. The 'inspiration' you proclaim strikes me as being 'perverse', IOW.

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you. What an amazing story and great advice.

One question. How is what you are feeling now the same/different to the bliss you experienced before?

I just feel deep in my heart that 'settling for second-best' isn't an option here. However, the beauty of this whole conversation being that since I started it, I have been opening myself up to feeling that Divine love even more.

I understand that what I experienced was in the past...but that also includes any and all reference to 'the God of my understanding'...but when I am advised to forget about all of that and put it behind me, I can't and so I ask myself "why not?" and all I can say is "because I love you, dammit!" and then I start fighting back tears...and this is a GOOD thing!

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, it was already past my bed time when I wrote yesterday lol.

What I'm feeling now I guess you could say is more heart centered rather than all consuming. My own experience of bliss dis-enabled me to function in this material world, I felt apart from it you could say, disconnected. What I feel now I guess is a deep state of equalibrium. Its not second best, its still a part of the original bliss but put on simmer if you like lol. I am able to function this way.

Its not that you totally forget...your past has molded you to who you are now. What I found though was rather than keeping it in mind, relevant bits come to mind when necessary as a part of healing process. I just allow those memories to play out and not attach any more significance to them.

When the mind is dominant you can't FEEL who you are being now if that makes sense...what I do is try to live what I FEEL, put my attention, my focus in what I'm feeling and that little bit of excitement that I follow is my motivation. When my attention is there I can move forward...when my mind is in the past I feel stagnant.

The way I see it, my essence is always here in the present. What happens when my mind is stuck in the past my energy is kind of split and this is tiring. I can't move forward. My past experiences though is a platform from which I can make new choices. If certain opportunities arise I'm better able to make wiser choices to where I would like to go.

I hope I made some sense lol

[Miss Hepburn]

Emm, I'm liking how you put things.

Originally Posted by davidsun

The implicit 'answer' is that if your 'soul' chooses the body it incarnates in for the 'its' purposes because said body and its environment 'sets up' particular opportunities and challenges (which 'suit' its purposes), then it (you?) has in effect chosen said body's 'gene' and 'environment' determined operational system.

IMO, your are 'avoiding' the significance of said 'answer' as it pertains to your present life(time) instead of exploring it. The 'inspiration' you proclaim strikes me as being 'perverse', IOW.

I've already said that I agree with everything you posted David, and that remains, yet there are still things that don't sit right with me. My own feelings are that there's something vital missing and I tend to run with my feelings rather than answers.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Emm, I'm liking how you put things.

Ditto Emm ... and it made a lot of sense (just saying that 'cuz I think Miss H. probably 'centrally' meant that but left it unstated).