A Bad Witch

Originally Posted by Quintessence

Except for those of us who do...

yes, some do, but you need to remember Karma.
If you want to manipulate people - by magick or not - go for it.

But if the person you manipulated finds outs and doesn't like it - be prepared to reap what you have sown. Manipulating people is not right, it's not nice. But if that's what you want to do, as I said, go for it.

Originally Posted by LadyMoondancer

yes, some do, but you need to remember Karma.
If you want to manipulate people - by magick or not - go for it.

But if the person you manipulated finds outs and doesn't like it - be prepared to reap what you have sown. Manipulating people is not right, it's not nice. But if that's what you want to do, as I said, go for it.

It just sounded like you were speaking a bit too broadly, so I had to bring it up. Not all "real" witches have any qualms about manipulating things for one reason or another. I think I'm reading the word "manipulate" in a more neutral fashion than you are. Everything manipulates. We live in a universe of causes and effects. But I bet by "manipulate" you really meant something like "behaviors which treat humans as means to an ends rather than subjects of ethical consideration," yes? Those who work with spellcraft have a variety of different ethical approaches, so I'd shy away from statements that sound like "if you're a REAL witch, you have to be a GOOD witch" even with this more loaded way of approaching the word "manipulate."

Originally Posted by Quintessence

It just sounded like you were speaking a bit too broadly, so I had to bring it up. Not all "real" witches have any qualms about manipulating things for one reason or another. I think I'm reading the word "manipulate" in a more neutral fashion than you are. Everything manipulates. We live in a universe of causes and effects. But I bet by "manipulate" you really meant something like "behaviors which treat humans as means to an ends rather than subjects of ethical consideration," yes? Those who work with spellcraft have a variety of different ethical approaches, so I'd shy away from statements that sound like "if you're a REAL witch, you have to be a GOOD witch" even with this more loaded way of approaching the word "manipulate."

hmmm, good points Quint. I agree - in a sense we ALL manipulate to some degree.
and you're right - every human has their own degree of ethical consideration.
I was just taken aback that serenity69 automatically assumes that just because he has a problem with a person he automatically thinks "go to the Wicca forum and tell them."
We had a discussion last month I believe, that there really should be a thread titled "Witchcraft" or "Witches" to distinguish between Wiccans and Witches. Because not all Wiccans are Witches. I think there should also be a thread titled "Magick" because what Serenity69 follows is NOT what Wiccans or even all Witches follow.

The title of this thread is WICCA - not WITCHCRAFT or MANIPULATIVE MAGICK or even HARRY POTTER.

And also, not all Witches practice the Craft to mete out punishment or to change other people. If Serenity69 is so steeped in modern Witchcraft mythology, he should know that - it was quite unfair and stereotypical to assume that a person taking control of an apartment building is doing magick, is a bad witch (how judemental), the man is evil, the man is hypnotized by demons, and right away think of WICCANS to turn the guy back into a "decent human being." - That was judgmental all around - to the guy and to us Wiccans.

I find his lack of knowledge disturbing. No one can be hypnotized against their will. I know. I've studied hypnotism. My uncle was a licensed hypno-therapist, I've been hypnotized. Not just by my uncle - by various people. I've studied the occult and the metaphysics for over 40 years. I am well aware of demons and the danger - but geez - get a grip. Harry Potter is FICTION. Hogwarts is FICTION. and he ought to take another look at the movie "The Craft."

and Serenity, I deleted your private message unread - because frankly, nothing you have to say interests me. I don't mean to sound nasty, but well, there you go. Your avatar is of Jesus Christ - why don't you ask HIM for help. Go to a xian church and get some holy water and squirt it on the guy. It worked in The Lost Boys. And if you are the REAL Harry Potter - why are you bothering us peons? - You know what to do already.

[Serenity69]

I agree with your viewpoint:)

Have u seen Rosemarys Baby this will explain what i meant.:)

[Zoclora]

Oh the joy! lol Iv been watching some Kemeic stuff to help me with my new found path in Egyptian Wicca. So much hate Im telling you. Not just by Christans but now by other races! What has this world come to =.=

But I agree with alot of this. (I am late on this thred..very late. So sorry on the lateness.) But true, Wicca and Witchcraft is diffrent in some ways. You never had any evadance on him useing "Satanic magick" Even though there is Good witches and Bad witches. Just like theres Good christans and theres Bad Christans. It goes for all the other faiths out there major and minor. And its true. If you need HELP call on Jesues or God. Or even Micheal. *Waves to Micheal* (Such a sweet heart) But yes, if you need some help with nasty little spirits call on one of them. They will help. (Even though my experance with a bishup said other wise. Not being hatful. Just the truth here)

I and alot of other Witches or what ever you want to call us, are good and careing people. We use magick (Useing a K lol) are mainly healers or light workers who only want TO DO GOOD. Even though it is true, not all people who go down this path uses magick, but alot of us do. From stones, to birthday candels! Oh and dont get me started with the Cathlic servas with candels! Oh and holy water to. (Good stuff espesholy with Angel salt!)

My sugestion is, dont hate somthing you dont understand becouse what you are hateing might be good for you. We use magick in our every day life rather we know i or not. But every one has thier veiw point of the after life and I know that no matter what you believe in we all go to a good place. The right place for us.

(Im sorry but I just had it ith hateing christans. =.= I cant watch a egucational video on YouTube with out seeing some very hateful comment.)

Bless Be<3

[norseman]

Lady Moondancer - "there really should be a thread titled "Witchcraft" or "Witches" to distinguish between Wiccans and Witches."

Actually, I argued that the block thread should be titled Craft/Wicca.
After all, the "trunk" of the tree is Craft and wicca is a new "branch" off that parent tree.

Originally Posted by norseman

Lady Moondancer - "there really should be a thread titled "Witchcraft" or "Witches" to distinguish between Wiccans and Witches."

Actually, I argued that the block thread should be titled Craft/Wicca.
After all, the "trunk" of the tree is Craft and wicca is a new "branch" off that parent tree.

that is true Norsey. And people really need to do their homework before posting on a thread.

And Zoclora - you bring up some excellant points.

As Norsey pointed out the other day - magick is neither good nor bad, it is in the intent of the person. To automatically label a person a "bad" witch is like saying he is good person or a bad person. Or is he good or bad at someTHING, as he is a good doctor (and I would go back to him) or he is a bad doctor (he misses things and doesn't seem to know what he's doing).
or, in my personal life, a year ago, they started making us nurses aides draw am bloods on the patients. Which I am not good at. I'm an excellant nursing assistant, but a bad phlebotomist. It's bears no reflection on ME as a person or how I care (in my heart) about my patients.

This stereotypical attitude comes from xians and Hollywood and NOT reality:

Glinda: (to Dorothy) "Are you a good witch or a bad witch?"

I do love that movie, but for a GREAT story - Gregory Maquire's "Wicked" is much better. But it's still FICTION and not reality.

Originally Posted by Serenity69

I agree with your viewpoint:)

Have u seen Rosemarys Baby this will explain what i meant.:)

yeah I saw Rosemary's Baby when it first came out in the late 60's and it is still FICTION and not reality.

unless you mean about a coven being set up in the building -

perhaps the whole problem is because you failed to explain EXACTLY what happened.

and why shouldn't a coven be set up? xians have their prayer meetings all the time. Frankly, I would LOVE a whole building occupied ONLY by Pagans. But I already live in one. Me, my hubby and our cat and our fish - we're all Pagans.

[EbonyDoe]

Originally Posted by LadyMoondancer

I do love that movie, but for a GREAT story - Gregory Maquire's "Wicked" is much better. But it's still FICTION and not reality.

I'm actually reading Wicked right now but am finding it a little ing with all the apparent time jumps in it

Originally Posted by LadyMoondancer

hmmm, good points Quint. I agree - in a sense we ALL manipulate to some degree.
and you're right - every human has their own degree of ethical consideration.
I was just taken aback that serenity69 automatically assumes that just because he has a problem with a person he automatically thinks "go to the Wicca forum and tell them."
We had a discussion last month I believe, that there really should be a thread titled "Witchcraft" or "Witches" to distinguish between Wiccans and Witches. Because not all Wiccans are Witches. I think there should also be a thread titled "Magick" because what Serenity69 follows is NOT what Wiccans or even all Witches follow.

The title of this thread is WICCA - not WITCHCRAFT or MANIPULATIVE MAGICK or even HARRY POTTER.

And also, not all Witches practice the Craft to mete out punishment or to change other people. If Serenity69 is so steeped in modern Witchcraft mythology, he should know that - it was quite unfair and stereotypical to assume that a person taking control of an apartment building is doing magick, is a bad witch (how judemental), the man is evil, the man is hypnotized by demons, and right away think of WICCANS to turn the guy back into a "decent human being." - That was judgmental all around - to the guy and to us Wiccans.

I find his lack of knowledge disturbing. No one can be hypnotized against their will. I know. I've studied hypnotism. My uncle was a licensed hypno-therapist, I've been hypnotized. Not just by my uncle - by various people. I've studied the occult and the metaphysics for over 40 years. I am well aware of demons and the danger - but geez - get a grip. Harry Potter is FICTION. Hogwarts is FICTION. and he ought to take another look at the movie "The Craft."

and Serenity, I deleted your private message unread - because frankly, nothing you have to say interests me. I don't mean to sound nasty, but well, there you go. Your avatar is of Jesus Christ - why don't you ask HIM for help. Go to a xian church and get some holy water and squirt it on the guy. It worked in The Lost Boys. And if you are the REAL Harry Potter - why are you bothering us peons? - You know what to do already.

We have the Pagan Forum.