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  #31  
Old 17-08-2017, 08:51 PM
Inika Inika is offline
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I dont understand narcssisim then. I figured it was people that need to constantly feel special. Important, life without them would fall apart types. I guess I really don't know.
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  #32  
Old 17-08-2017, 09:30 PM
Delay_Reaction Delay_Reaction is offline
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Posts: 292
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Delay--- I'm very sorry for your troubles.
Have you been reading this discussion on narcissism?
Narcissism is not only something that occurs to a subset of men.
Many borderlines are also narcissists, BTW. And many of them are women.

I think her behavior is toxic. And the fact that she cannot be bothered to consider the impact of her toxic behaviour on others is equally toxic.

A primary sign of both of these PDs is aggressive sexuality (promiscuity)and/or manipulative use of sexuality. You have been describing this over and over again in your observations of her and her actions.

This is someone who repeatedly puts herself and only herself first. This is not a person who can be trusted in any sort of relationship...unfortunately, I wouldn't even put too much stock in a friendship if I were you. But for your sake, I hope that she would continue to call you friend even if you were to close off the romantic pursuit of her and look elsewhere for an authentic intimate partnership.

If you continue, you're well advised to take it for what it is -- nothing that can be relied upon when the cards are down, unfortunately.

If she really is the soul in your soul family closest to you at the time of your creation...then you do have a connection and you got a raw deal...as so commonly is the case during these times -- times when society promotes a really degraded, utilitarian, me-first way of being.

BUT even in these degraded times, which have misdirected many and enslaved many others to sexual addictions etc., your connection can be loving, kind, and supportive even if the other soul is someone who is at a very different place on their path with regard to integrity and the sacredness of sex within an authentically loving, meaningfully committed relationship. I am assuming this is what you would pursue with her, BTW. But clearly she is nowhere near there AND it may be years till she begins to grasp what this means, if ever.

Your soul connection is one of love and acceptance but doesn't EVER have to be romantic and in your case, really should not be IMO. In fact, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that anyone who has your best interests at heart would advise you to pursue this woman (or anyone like her) for intimate partnership.

How many minds and hearts does she need to subject to mind screwage? How many penises have to go inside one woman in her insatiable lust to control and manipulate others for the thrill of it? What kind of a person repeatedly engages in such low behaviour whilst failing to take ownership for any of the traumatic fallout? Well, a borderline &/or a narcissist would.

How many times can she cheat on others whilst using the excuse that she is clueless? As if that is somehow 1) better or 2) believable for anyone over maybe 18 or so yrs of age? And 18 is pushing it, IMO...unless one is perhaps severely emotionally or socially retarded or challenged. Or, a borderline/narcissist.

I know your love for an individual has nothing to do with his or her behaviour, and that is a blessing and a gift we give to one another. But...it doesn't mean you have to maintain a relationship of any kind, even acquaintanceship. Much less even a friendship, if it is too traumatic for you. If you do maintain a friendship, it needs to be mutually honouring, engaged, kind, courteous, and respectful of one another. Or else it is not friendship and isn't sustainable.

So now consider a "partnership" with someone who thus far has shown they are incapable of behaving honourably toward others. It's just not ever going to work with someone who is where she is. She'd have to be a different version of herself at an entirely different place on her journey, in order for this to work.
Given who she is, you are essentially asking her to take you out behind the chemical shed and blow your guts out all over the ground. Oops...so sorry. The gun just went off 10 or 20 times and I couldn't stop pulling the trigger till there was nothing left to shoot. In fact, I was clueless. Terribly sorry....lalala...who's next?

I hate to be the one to break it to you, as I'm all about love and forgiveness in the sense of authentic love for one another as people and as beloved friends. But giving her or anyone love doesn't "fix" them. It doesn't "help" or "allow" them grow up or heal or do any of that. Essentially, your loving her and even having sex with her will not metaphysically speaking allow you to accomplish her tasks. She still has to carry her own weight. All the love in the universe doesn't mean a damn thing UNLESS they choose to slog through the difficult daily struggle on their own. Which they need to be able to do without you, anyway. Particularly the narcissists and the borderlines, both of whom need to learn how to stand on their own and quit using others.

You seem like a nice gent...and no one's saying don't love her as a person. They're saying honour yourself and choose wisely. You can love her from afar if it's too difficult to be friends. Or you can be her friend very cautiously, with healthy boundaries. But you certainly don't need a sexual relationship with someone who is at present incapable of true intimacy.

Peace & blessings
and much love & light...
7L

Thank you Luminaries for your well thought out reply. I really do appreciate what you have to say.

I'm really confused about this whole situation as it continues to take some weird turns.

Communication with my TF has become so strange and completely erratic.

I am basically ignoring her, and only respond to her when she contacts me on social media (about once a week).

When we see each other (and she's with someone), I ignore her and treat her like she's not even in the room. Again, she's the one who comes up to me to say hello as I do not go to her.

Yesterday, this exact situation happened. We were at the same place at the same time. She came up to me at the end of the night to say hello.

Today, we had a brief chat and she said that she was literally shaking and sweating at the thought of talking to me last night. But in the end, she did. She said she could feel my energy in the room and it was attracting her like crazy, yet she could also feel the wall I had put up between us. She came up to me anyway. I told her that if she had come up to me earlier in the evening, I would have told her to go away.

She is totally incapable of staying away.

When I send her a loving message, she ignores my message completely.

When I shut her out of my life and ignore her, she comes back.

She even thanked me for giving her the opportunity to speak to me after I was basically ignoring her all evening. She even called me a beautiful and loving soul.

I have no idea what is going on anymore.

The person I fell in love with is behaving in such an erratic fashion. I really do not want to enable any more of this strange behavior... but I'm unsure of what to do at this point. She simply will not go away until she gets what she wants.

I've built up a pretty big wall over the last few weeks. She seems eager to chip away at it.
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  #33  
Old 17-08-2017, 09:53 PM
Inika Inika is offline
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,345
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delay_Reaction
Thank you Luminaries for your well thought out reply. I really do appreciate what you have to say.

I'm really confused about this whole situation as it continues to take some weird turns.

Communication with my TF has become so strange and completely erratic.

I am basically ignoring her, and only respond to her when she contacts me on social media (about once a week).

When we see each other (and she's with someone), I ignore her and treat her like she's not even in the room. Again, she's the one who comes up to me to say hello as I do not go to her.

Yesterday, this exact situation happened. We were at the same place at the same time. She came up to me at the end of the night to say hello.

Today, we had a brief chat and she said that she was literally shaking and sweating at the thought of talking to me last night. But in the end, she did. She said she could feel my energy in the room and it was attracting her like crazy, yet she could also feel the wall I had put up between us. She came up to me anyway. I told her that if she had come up to me earlier in the evening, I would have told her to go away.

She is totally incapable of staying away.

When I send her a loving message, she ignores my message completely.

When I shut her out of my life and ignore her, she comes back.

She even thanked me for giving her the opportunity to speak to me after I was basically ignoring her all evening. She even called me a beautiful and loving soul.

I have no idea what is going on anymore.

The person I fell in love with is behaving in such an erratic fashion. I really do not want to enable any more of this strange behavior... but I'm unsure of what to do at this point. She simply will not go away until she gets what she wants.

I've built up a pretty big wall over the last few weeks. She seems eager to chip away at it.
Focus on something else.
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  #34  
Old 17-08-2017, 10:59 PM
ONEsoul ONEsoul is offline
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 139
 
I will add my .01 cent worth...Try to lighten your heart. Meaning,... find all the positive things about this connection and focus on that. It will not only help eliminate your ANGER and HURT, but it will give you some perspective. You have said you don't think she is intentionally trying to hurt you, and from what I have read I doubt she is. She is probably as dazed and confused by this connection as you. Why do people expect rational behaviour from people going through one of the most intense, transformative , life changing experiences they have ever encountered. Everyone reacts differently. I am not saying this to justify her actions, I am saying this speaking from YEARS of experience going through this. When a connection this strong comes along, it overwhelms you. Your range of emotions are off the charts. If you have trust issues, as I did, and as she probably does as well, it takes crazy to a whole new level! You LOOK for things as an excuse to discount this experience, so you can explain it away as not being real, and all in your head. That would be a relief, because then all the craziness would stop! You admitted that you sent her mixed messages in the beginning.... Sending mixed messages to someone with trust issues is a death wish. It gives that person the validation they were loking for, to not reciprocate any more of themselves, because you have given her doubt. I know it is not what you wanted to hear, but I lived through it, and understand. I was never unfaithful to any person I was ever in a relationship with...that part I cannot relate to, but she obviously is trying to work through something. Lighten your heart...Try to find some common ground with her, hopefully on a lighter humorous side, and lighten your heart. Find someone whom you can spend time with that can make you laugh, and that you enjoy hanging out with. It doesnt have to be a soul connection. You sound like a funny, loving, passionate person whom most women would love to get to know. Sometimes a real break is necessary and healthy. Unfriend her for awhile on social media, but do it with kindness. Tell her your taking a much needed break ....She will understand
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  #35  
Old 18-08-2017, 02:23 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delay_Reaction
Thank you Luminaries for your well thought out reply. I really do appreciate what you have to say.

I'm really confused about this whole situation as it continues to take some weird turns.

Communication with my TF has become so strange and completely erratic.

I am basically ignoring her, and only respond to her when she contacts me on social media (about once a week).

When we see each other (and she's with someone), I ignore her and treat her like she's not even in the room. Again, she's the one who comes up to me to say hello as I do not go to her.

Yesterday, this exact situation happened. We were at the same place at the same time. She came up to me at the end of the night to say hello.

Today, we had a brief chat and she said that she was literally shaking and sweating at the thought of talking to me last night. But in the end, she did. She said she could feel my energy in the room and it was attracting her like crazy, yet she could also feel the wall I had put up between us. She came up to me anyway. I told her that if she had come up to me earlier in the evening, I would have told her to go away.

She is totally incapable of staying away.

When I send her a loving message, she ignores my message completely.

When I shut her out of my life and ignore her, she comes back.

She even thanked me for giving her the opportunity to speak to me after I was basically ignoring her all evening. She even called me a beautiful and loving soul.

I have no idea what is going on anymore.

The person I fell in love with is behaving in such an erratic fashion. I really do not want to enable any more of this strange behavior... but I'm unsure of what to do at this point. She simply will not go away until she gets what she wants.

I've built up a pretty big wall over the last few weeks. She seems eager to chip away at it.

Delay, hello there

I get this situation is difficult. But you have to live with yourself and you need to find a way to do this with dignity and character.

Currently with all this push/pull you are doing to her...(and she likewise to you)...

You are displaying classic avoidant attachment behaviour and she is seeing it as a rejection, hence a challenge. The whole thing is unhealthy. Avoidant attachment is a close cousin of narcissism and again, only those avoidants who want to change are ever successful at modifying their behaviour. I suggest you not get sucked down into this path...it is toxic for you and will destroy any chance you have at finding and keeping any authentic love in your life.

Being an avoidant is characterized by extreme mind screwage and inconsistent behaviour, i.e., hot/cold. You are hot (loving message) when she's distant and when she's close, you pointedly ignore her. I realise she's doing the same thing. You are two avoidants (or, you are acting as if you are)...GOOD LUCK with that unsustainable relationship LOL...

Avoidants ideally need an anxious type of co-dependent who is always trying to please and will put up with their **** when avoidants are in the "cold phase" and turn cold & cruel to those who have tried to get close after the avoidant allowed them to approach ("hot phase"). Avoidants dish out abuse to whomever will take it (the codependent), because avoidants are incapable of sustaining intimacy with others and so they traumatise others instead of dealing with their own problems. Two avoidants will never make it because the toxicity levels are too consistently high.

This is my recommendation...don't adopt toxic personality styles just because she is deep into it in this way and in other ways. Don't let her extreme behaviour and serious issues infect you. Deciding who you really are and what you will or won't do is absolutely a part of setting healthy boundaries. If this isn't you then drop it immediately, and be sure to establish firm boundaries with her such that you let her know the hot/cold behavior is hurtful to you and that you need to avoid it (no pun intended).

So what she does next is up to her, but at least she'll know that you're not going to respond to petty or blatant cruelty, nor to intermittent reward (hot/cold) -- all of which is the stuff of professional torturers throughout history BTW. In order to guarantee you never become accustomed to the pain but rather instead always feel it most keenly. Intermittent reinforcement is, due to its sheer inconsistency, the most effective form of physical, mental, and emotional torture known (per behavioural psychologists) for breaking the spirit and training the subject to obey the whims of the torturer.

AND nor will you be dishing out...that's called integrity. She's going to have to learn to be consistent and honest and direst with you too...or you'll end up having to severely minimise contact with her. Not that you don't love you...that's truly beside the point. Loving is not just a feeling. More than anything else, loving is a verb. It is a doing and a being. And you get to decide that no, avoidant hot/cold behaviour is not loving for you, and that no thanks, you won't be signing on for more of that.

First...IMO you'll have to give up on the romantic/sexual partnership idea. Then, you need to decide if you want her friendship in your life. If yes, you need to establish strong boundaries for your own well-being. But you should always be direct and courteous.

Meaning, say (here's my suggestion, just to give an idea...), if you don't want to engage with her whilst she's out with her sexual flavour of the week or month, then greet her briefly, and let her know you two can catch up some other time when she's able to meet you for a coffee (not a drink....). And tell her generally no judgment but that you don't have a lot of free time, so you prefer to spend time around her when it's just her and you two can catch up (whilst she's sober and not on the make etc.). Be sure to meet in public and avoid private situations where she could liquor you up or put the moves on you...classic narcisstic behaviour btw, manipulating others for sex and control. Instead, this is you a friend just honestly expressing where you're at and what you can do.

This is always better than ignoring her or being petty in public, just because you (understandably) don't like the situation. Instead, have a plan, tell her directly, and then you know what to do when you see her out with her interchangeable sex partners. You'll begin to realise you're stronger than you know and you'll realise you don't have to rise to her manipulations, nor dish them out in return. You'll be giving yourself love in action, and you'll likewise be modeling love in action to her. We are how we treat each other (and ourselves), as the song says.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #36  
Old 18-08-2017, 06:24 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inika
I dont understand narcssisim then. I figured it was people that need to constantly feel special. Important, life without them would fall apart types. I guess I really don't know.

Hello Inika!
Maybe for some it is exactly that...but it seems to me often for them it has to do with notions of blame and judgment. Everyone and everything that is not aligned to whatever they want will be maligned, calumnised, blamed, and judged. This virulent need to be above blame or normal human fallibility is clinically referred to as an "inferiority complex" but IMO this is just another aspect of the grandiosity (God complex) seen in PDs on the psychopathy spectrum.

Likewise, nothing they do can withstand any comment or critique. They are never wrong -- perfect and infallible -- and maintaining that appearance in public and to themselves may be worth any cost. This is what we refer to as the God complex -- the narcissist's view that they are perfect, infallible, and perhaps even beyond the standards of the rest of humanity. Adulation may be required here as well...again, it's their own version of the God complex.

if there is success or favour accruing to those around them, it is all due to the narcissist, whose presence and help is at the root of whomever's good fortune and on this count, they do often demand constant praise and adulation.

There is, clearly, a fairly large overlap between narcissism, sociopathy, and psychopathy.

Quote:
https://nobullying.com/psychopath-vs-sociopath/

2014

The psychopath vs sociopath distinction is sometimes a subtle one with overlapping similarities.
According to the American Psychiatric Association (APA) both of these terms are usually defined as types of antisocial personality disorders. The distinctions between psychopaths and sociopaths are generally defined by various behaviours and personality traits. Ether are likely to be bullies or the victims of bullying, and either is likely to have some of the traits associated with narcissism – a third personality disorder that is closely related to both psychopathy and sociopathy.

The APA lists several types of criteria for diagnostic purposes when determining if a person has one of the personality disorders discussed above. These criteria include:
•A disregard for the rights of others.
•A lack of empathy for others.
•Difficulty with genuine intimacy.
•Manipulative behaviour.
•Impulsive behaviour.
Quote:
https://www.healthyplace.com/persona...vs-psychopath/

2017

While narcissists and psychopaths, those with Antisocial Personality Disorder share some common traits, there are characteristics that set them apart.

We all heard the terms "psychopath" or "sociopath". These are the old or colloquial names for a patient with the Antisocial Personality Disorder (AsPD). It is hard to distinguish narcissists from psychopaths. The latter may simply be a less inhibited and less grandiose form of the former. Some scholars have suggested the existence of a hybrid "psychopathic narcissist", or "narcissistic psychopath". Indeed, the DSM V Committee is considering to merge these personality disorders.

Still, there are some important nuances setting the two disorders apart:

As opposed to most narcissists, psychopaths are either unable or unwilling to control their impulses or to delay gratification. They use their rage to control people and manipulate them into submission.
If it's all a bit difficult to sort, this means you're not a narcissist and haven't known many up close -- and that's a good thing!
Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #37  
Old 21-08-2017, 08:04 PM
ONEsoul ONEsoul is offline
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 139
 
Delay_Reaction,

I am not here to put labels on anything...To be honest I dont even subscribe to the label of twin flames... someone has attempted to put a label on an experience that has been shared by many here, and many have offered "THEIR VERSIONS" of what your truth should be. This is only because they do not see, nor feel the subtley of this powerful truth. -that what you believe (feel accept in your heart as real) you create, and that we EACH must extrapolate the truth and accept the consequences of our thoughts, actions and intent. You will follow this path that you are on, until LOVE fills all of your being. Emotion is your greatest power. Thoughts must be filled with and fired with the energy of emotion to come forth. Be this the reversed emotion of love, which is selfishness in all of its form, including the need to control, possess out of fear, or seeing the perfection in everything. Your thoughts will magnetize it into expression....You are creating your own unique experience
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  #38  
Old 22-08-2017, 12:56 AM
BlueCat BlueCat is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,032
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7luminaries, thank you for your explanations !
I'm not sure if the person i mean (not TF) is a narcissist or a sociopath, sometimes she seems more narc sometimes sociopath and i don't know her well to diagnose nor i'm a mental health specialist. I just know there is something really off about that person and she does reckless choices, radical personality changes like a different person (the "masks") and stuff that is shared from both narc and sociopaths.
There aren't many of them, i think i have met probably just two people with a similar personality.
It's also interesting the "avoidant" personality, i wanted to do a similar thing to punish my TF but later i thought it was just ego talk and i rejected it. Really good advice.
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  #39  
Old 22-08-2017, 07:38 AM
Delay_Reaction Delay_Reaction is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 292
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEsoul
I will add my .01 cent worth...Try to lighten your heart. Meaning,... find all the positive things about this connection and focus on that. It will not only help eliminate your ANGER and HURT, but it will give you some perspective. You have said you don't think she is intentionally trying to hurt you, and from what I have read I doubt she is. She is probably as dazed and confused by this connection as you. Why do people expect rational behaviour from people going through one of the most intense, transformative , life changing experiences they have ever encountered. Everyone reacts differently. I am not saying this to justify her actions, I am saying this speaking from YEARS of experience going through this. When a connection this strong comes along, it overwhelms you. Your range of emotions are off the charts. If you have trust issues, as I did, and as she probably does as well, it takes crazy to a whole new level! You LOOK for things as an excuse to discount this experience, so you can explain it away as not being real, and all in your head. That would be a relief, because then all the craziness would stop! You admitted that you sent her mixed messages in the beginning.... Sending mixed messages to someone with trust issues is a death wish. It gives that person the validation they were loking for, to not reciprocate any more of themselves, because you have given her doubt. I know it is not what you wanted to hear, but I lived through it, and understand. I was never unfaithful to any person I was ever in a relationship with...that part I cannot relate to, but she obviously is trying to work through something. Lighten your heart...Try to find some common ground with her, hopefully on a lighter humorous side, and lighten your heart. Find someone whom you can spend time with that can make you laugh, and that you enjoy hanging out with. It doesnt have to be a soul connection. You sound like a funny, loving, passionate person whom most women would love to get to know. Sometimes a real break is necessary and healthy. Unfriend her for awhile on social media, but do it with kindness. Tell her your taking a much needed break ....She will understand

Thanks ONEsoul. I have been getting to know others exactly in the way which you advise. The connection isn't intense like it is with my twin, but the point is to find companionship with another with whom I can share a laugh or two and where each other's company is mutually enjoyable.

As for unfriending her, I have already told her many times I need a break, and she will contact me a few days or weeks after to see how I'm doing. If I respond in a reasonable amount of time, she will continue the dialogue. I'm not sure if going to greater lengths to avoid contact with her is the way to go. As it stands, contact with each other is unavoidable.

I feel it is better for me right now to build a wall between us so her actions don't have an effect on me. Since she doesn't believe in boundaries, it is up to me to build them.
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