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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #41  
Old 26-01-2018, 11:15 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree


Congratulations.

BT


Sorry if I was being offensive or hurtful, that wasn't my intention.
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  #42  
Old 26-01-2018, 11:25 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem



Indeed, wisdom is required, and that can't be taught in the way knowledge is.


A very interesting point.

CAN wisdom be 'taught'?

People read spiritual books and 'learn' from teachers, but are they only acquiring concepts, ideas, rather than ACTUAL wisdom or understanding?

If true wisdom COULD be taught, perhaps everyone would be wise. We're all familiar, for example, with teachings about forgiveness, love, humility, and so on. Yet few display these qualities.

I think I agree with you.

I've never really looked at it that way. I always thought I'd be acquiring 'wisdom' when I read a new spiritual book. But it seems that such acquisition requires more than mere intellectual familiarity with concepts, however apparently wise they may be.
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  #43  
Old 26-01-2018, 11:44 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Or perhaps, wisdom CAN be 'taught,' but not through words.

ACIM says, 'Strictly speaking, words play no part in healing.'

It may be that wisdom can be taught through EXAMPLE.

Or it can be the result of love. For example, if I'm very upset, and someone is very kind to me, I might find healing, and may acquire wisdom as a result.
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  #44  
Old 27-01-2018, 12:01 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
Or perhaps, wisdom CAN be 'taught,' but not through words.

ACIM says, 'Strictly speaking, words play no part in healing.'

It may be that wisdom can be taught through EXAMPLE.

Or it can be the result of love. For example, if I'm very upset, and someone is very kind to me, I might find healing, and may acquire wisdom as a result.


I enjoy reading your conversations.

When I began reading many spiritual/self healing books over many many years, they became a guide to show me what I was seeking at the time to find more, as myself (the knowledge triggered in resonation, inside me what I was unveiling) So they both served to support opening me, and educating me about life beyond my own knowing, but ultimately the experience through life was showing me the understanding and becoming more as myself. So what you know of through the mind/body as deeper understanding within yourself, will lead to a clarity of truth that comes from within. Wisdom then, in this way, becomes your wise self knowing more complete, what that first initial interest was actually speaking to you about deeper within your totality of being.
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #45  
Old 27-01-2018, 12:04 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
A very interesting point.

CAN wisdom be 'taught'?

People read spiritual books and 'learn' from teachers, but are they only acquiring concepts, ideas, rather than ACTUAL wisdom or understanding?

If true wisdom COULD be taught, perhaps everyone would be wise. We're all familiar, for example, with teachings about forgiveness, love, humility, and so on. Yet few display these qualities.

I think I agree with you.

I've never really looked at it that way. I always thought I'd be acquiring 'wisdom' when I read a new spiritual book. But it seems that such acquisition requires more than mere intellectual familiarity with concepts, however apparently wise they may be.

a quote on one of the boards here recently was to the effect, anyone with true wisdom who then tries to impart it only looks foolish to others who don't already have it? So it cannot be taught, because it is built into the system that everyone who hadn't already found it for themselves would reject it outright?

and the poem 'if' (kipling) has more to say on the topic:

if you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools


which seems to indicate that maybe part of wisdom is to be able to understand the negative consequences to imparting wisdom?

Anyway, there are biblical scriptures (for example) that would bear out the thought that true wisdom looks foolish to mankind at large.
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  #46  
Old 27-01-2018, 01:58 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
A very interesting point.

CAN wisdom be 'taught'?

Not in the usual sense. The example was given bu Happy Soul where Einstein taught energy=mass, but that learned knowledge was applied with questionable wisdom.

I think of wisdom as something which is 'cultivated'....

Quote:
People read spiritual books and 'learn' from teachers, but are they only acquiring concepts, ideas, rather than ACTUAL wisdom or understanding?

Well, the idea of such teachings is you check them against yourself and find out if what is said is true or not.

Quote:
If true wisdom COULD be taught, perhaps everyone would be wise. We're all familiar, for example, with teachings about forgiveness, love, humility, and so on. Yet few display these qualities.

Exactly. We actually know better, but we don't always do what is for the best.

Quote:
I think I agree with you.

I've never really looked at it that way. I always thought I'd be acquiring 'wisdom' when I read a new spiritual book. But it seems that such acquisition requires more than mere intellectual familiarity with concepts, however apparently wise they may be.

Indeed. We see many with a lot of reading behind them who aren't particularly wise, and we those who read next to nothing who are. It's still good practice to read and listen to spiritual teachers, but the idea is to explore that in yourself rather than take-it-to-be-true.
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  #47  
Old 27-01-2018, 02:16 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
That's useful for personal differentiation and I get that. Actually, judgment can be either judgmental or discerning, though...and I like that it is nuanced in that way.

I like to make delineated definitions, but that's because I don't want people to think my discernments are implying anything about them.

Quote:
True. It's part of skillful navigation of the journey no doubt. There's no pleasing everyone but if someone has taken it personally to the point they don't respond...then unfortunately I have no opportunity to directly address it with them further, either.

Yes. If they ignore you they obviously want to be left alone. That's different to not having a response, though. Possibly they pay attention but have nothing to say in return.

Quote:
If someone is affronted but responds, I can respond to where I have not (for them) skillfully addressed it.

That's a good idea. I'll take that on. It happens to me all the time, I think a person means one thing when they really mean another, and I appreciate it when they clarify so I see where I misunderstood their meaning.

Quote:
It's hard to do otherwise on a forum at times, when folks are at many diff places. And yet...I think rattling of cages will occur when we are trying to move forward on our journey...it's probably inevitable.

Yep.

Quote:
There is truth in all you've said. It's not about being free of all "need" for human interaction and kindness..we're not robots. I feel we border on dehumanisation when we set that level of expectation for ourselves...it's not right-aligned IMO. Yet we do need to bring ownership and transparency, absolutely. Not deceit and denial and exploitation as you say, nor justification for these.

True.


True. IMO we need to seek beyond the comfort zone whenever we can...not everyone may agree but for me it is a necessary thing.

To go past the comfort of the known reminds me of Nisargadatta saying 'the finite is the price of the infinite'.

I also recall words from Gibran's "On Houses"
Have you beauty, that leads the heart from things fashioned of wood and stone to the holy mountain?
Tell me, have you these in your houses?
Or have you only comfort, and the lust for comfort, that stealthy thing that enters the house a guest, and then becomes a host and then a master?

Quote:
Perhaps I was oversimplifying but IMO in general finding and voicing our truth is a part of the journey and becoming more aware. So even though the context and general consideration of others is always important, it is IMO generally still a good to speak your truth. Folks become more self-aware and more transparent, we learn how to communicate and listen and become more tolerant (the goal, anyway). Not of misalignment...we still need a centre. But of difference generally.

Peace and blessings
7L
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  #48  
Old 27-01-2018, 05:36 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Moreover, that we may have offended folks without intending to do so and that there may be a variety of valid reasons that this occurs, some of which may arise simply out of the human spectrum of difference.

For myself, I have also stated that where this occurred, this can be seen as a failure in skillful communication that I can own. I do not intend this to be viewed as a subtle request for sympathy, LOL... so no worries

Yes, I understood your intent, 7L. You're good and eminently so positive

BT
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  #49  
Old 27-01-2018, 05:38 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
Sorry if I was being offensive or hurtful, that wasn't my intention.

None taken. I said it as it is - I don't mind that you see it that way and that's good for you if it works for you.

BT
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  #50  
Old 27-01-2018, 05:40 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, the idea of such teachings is you check them against yourself and find out if what is said is true or not.

As opposed to casting doubt/delegitimizing the teacher/teaching?

That's nice.

BT
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