Hard to love others? Been lied to and betrayed? Step right up...let's help each other

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by davidsun

You do understand that the transcript is of a conversation which took place 'on earth', between an earthly 'hypnotherapist' and a 'regressed' to between-earthly-life memories 'subject', don't you?

I surely understand.

My point is that various hypnotists tend to have only subjects that conform with the hypnotist's basic beliefs. One model is Newton's and his followers, others are about aliens, etc..

This makes me believe that the information brought by the regressed subjects is affected by the hypnotist's beliefs. Why does it happen? Because during regression all the participants to the session, including witnesses, get into a certain level of trance, and they interact at the subconscious level. Also, the subject interprets subjectively what they perceive.

The same happens during other experiences, e.g. channeling.

My belief is that all anthropomorphic models of the afterlife are affected heavily by humans' inclination to be Earth-centered; like in "the Sun revolves around the Earth".

So, I don't believe the case you cited from Newton's book to be close to what is there. This doesn't mean that you won't find that when you die, if that's what you believe. For a while, until your Earthly beliefs fade, you'll create a reality for your self that will conform to them.

FYI: I had my own past life and my life-between-lives regressions.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hey thanks, Davidsun, I will read the blue excerpt soon... I am looking at his

Destiny and Journey books right here on a shelf right now, funny, huh?
Have not opened them yet!
So many others...incidentally, if you or anyone likes the soul stories directly from the person on the Other Side...
I highly recommend ...somewhere online for free Anthony Borgia's ''Life in the Unseen World" and it's sequel,
"More in The World Unseen"...
direct from the horses mouth ...a psychic type, Father Benson, dies and talks with his old friend Anthony on earth.
It is pretty famous, it is what the movie ,"What Dreams May Come",
was based on.
You'll thank me!!!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I surely understand.

My point is that various hypnotists tend to have only subjects that conform with the hypnotist's basic beliefs. One model is Newton's and his followers, others are about aliens, etc..

This makes me believe that the information brought by the regressed subjects is affected by the hypnotist's beliefs. Why does it happen? Because during regression all the participants to the session, including witnesses, get into a certain level of trance, and they interact at the subconscious level. Also, the subject interprets subjectively what they perceive.

The same happens during other experiences, e.g. channeling.

My belief is that all anthropomorphic models of the afterlife are affected heavily by humans' inclination to be Earth-centered; like in "the Sun revolves around the Earth".

So, I don't believe the case you cited from Newton's book to be close to what is there. This doesn't mean that you won't find that when you die, if that's what you believe. For a while, until your Earthly beliefs fade, you'll create a reality for your self that will conform to them.

FYI: I had my own past life and my life-between-lives regressions.

I agree with the 'overall' perspective you present, inavalan. I was impressed by Newton's self-report that he had did not have any pre-formulated belief when he tripped onto his clients' 'revelations', but he cetainly could have had an 'unconscious' belief-set.

Ultimately, what anyone experiences as being 'real' is a subjective 'construction', I think, so the 'best' we (anyone!) can ever hope to 'know' is intersubjective agreements - the 'theory' that I 'go' on, is that 'we' individually and en_masse actually 'create' the 'realities' that 'we' experientially live 'in'.

I have not come across a more coherently (in terms of all the things it ties together) and meaningful and less biased-seeming 'world-view' than what Michael Newton has synthesized on the basis of his clients' reports - I am more likely to view your world-view and related experience to be biased by your and your 'therapists' pre-sumptions and related desires, in other words.

We each have to make our own choices in terms of what be project 'reality' to (most likely ) be like, I think.

If (as is implicit in your comments) you have a better (more 'really' true) 'construction' (meaning something which you regard as being a more meaningful and likely to be 'true' synthesis) pertaining to the etiology and progression of the kind of things Miss H. has shared and talked about, I invite you to put this forward instead of just 'doubtfully questioning' Newton's explanations (and 'dismiising' them as being unduly 'anthropmorphic') so that your views and beliefs may be considered as possibly being really relevant by her and everyone else here. This is how 'world-views' become embraced and 'science' progresses, Man!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn{...direct from the horses mouth :smile: ...a psychic type, Father Benson, dies and talks with his old friend Anthony on earth.
It is pretty famous, it is what the movie ,[B

"What Dreams May Come"[/b],
was based on. You'll thank me!!!

I probably won't (... won't 'thank you' in this regard, that is).

From the book I wrote:

"one shouldn’t [therefore] decide it is ‘better’ to just rely on what is thought of as intuition instead. Though spontaneously arising thought-feeling gestalts and prompts may frequently be totally appropriate and Life-affirming, they are often purely reflexive phenomena, like the excitement of Pavlov’s dogs upon hearing a familiar-sounding bell, heavily influenced by, if not completely a function of, prior patterns of perception and conditioning. As demonstrated by the fact that acclaimed clairvoyants also [sometimes] make erroneous pronouncements, intuition is not a totally trustworthy indication. Even the most impressive revelation does not derive from direct perception of Life’s actual layout, but is a subjective ‘projection’ based on what is ‘alive’ in the domain of one’s personal or group psyche at the moment."

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I agree with the 'overall' perspective you present, inavalan. I was impressed by Newton's self-report that he had did not have any pre-formulated belief when he tripped onto his clients' 'revelations', but he cetainly could have had an 'unconscious' belief-set.

Ultimately, what anyone experiences as being 'real' is a subjective 'construction', I think, so the 'best' we (anyone!) can ever hope to 'know' is intersubjective agreements - the 'theory' that I 'go' on, is that 'we' individually and en_masse actually 'create' the 'realities' that 'we' experientially live 'in'.

I have not come across a more coherently (in terms of all the things it ties together) and meaningful and less biased-seeming 'world-view' than what Michael Newton has synthesized on the basis of his clients' reports - I am more likely to view your world-view and related experience to be biased by your and your 'therapists' pre-sumptions and related desires, in other words.

We each have to make our own choices in terms of what be project 'reality' to (most likely ) be like, I think.

If (as is implicit in your comments) you have a better (more 'really' true) 'construction' (meaning something which you regard as being a more meaningful and likely to be 'true' synthesis) pertaining to the etiology and progression of the kind of things Miss H. has shared and talked about, I invite you to put this forward instead of just 'doubtfully questioning' Newton's explanations (and 'dismiising' them as being unduly 'anthropmorphic') so that your views and beliefs may be considered as possibly being really relevant by her and everyone else here. This is how 'world-views' become embraced and 'science' progresses, Man!

I guess it is polite from my part to reply. On the other hand I don't want to argue, convince you, or spend more time on this (it already took me too long to formulate this balanced response). So, allow me to just maintain my opinion as I formulated it in my precedent post.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I guess it is polite from my part to reply. On the other hand I don't want to argue, convince you, or spend more time on this (it already took me too long to formulate this balanced response). So, allow me to just maintain my opinion as I formulated it in my precedent post.

I didn't want to 'argue' either - only asked you to present/describe your world-view pertaining to any or all of the things spoken about in this thread instead of simply expressing the opinion that there was something 'off' about Michael Newton's world-view for the reasons you stated (which reasoning I found reasonable but opined would apply to the world view based on your past-life recollection while in under hypnotic regression as well) so that Miss H and others here (including me) could have a chance to evaluate its possible pertinence to them. Its just a matter of putting any and all possibly helpful theories 'on deck'.

Of course, I respect (you don't need my 'allowance' for) your decision not to articulate your world view here.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

YES! I never put it together that way...'when there is an agreement'!
Cuz I get a lot of guff that my father was so terrible...and I say, it was meant to be so I could learn something finally!

If a person can even imagine that this is a possibility, it could leave them more open to ponder:
Could my 'mean' mother and I have some past understanding?
Example: "Could we have made an agreement because in the 1100s I was
a Mongolian soldier that enjoyed pillaging villages?
But, because I have led many 'good' lives...my karma has been reduced to just her abuse?
So what seems bad...in the bigger picture is so very perfect!"

This is one reason I believe it is said, "Do not judge"...because we have no idea what is really going on.

I'd take karma out of the picture completely because all this good/bad deeds stuff just confuses the issue. Karma is just judgement based on human morality, and pretty low-level morality at that - http://damienmarieathope.com/2017/03...rsal-ethicist/


There was a brilliant story I read about two Spirits who were deciding on what was going to happen in their up-coming incarnation. One decided she was going to have the experience of being raped and the other agreed to give her that experience. The only stipulation he made was that she had to remember that when it was happening, he was doing it out of Unconditional Love.


One of the reasons we don't really understand Christ Consciousness is because we don't think of it in the right way. God sent his only son but I'm guessing Jesus had a choice the same as all the rest, and that he went into it with his eyes wide open. He was going to save humanity, but for that to happen he needed to be crucified because if he didn't people would just regard him as an ordinary Joe.


Purely imaginary scenario:-
You have an agreement to save David's Life, but before you can do that you need to have enough empathy for him. For you to gain that empathy you have to go through a traumatic experience and I'm going to play the protagonist. Bear in mind that when you're in the middle of this traumatic experience and you're hating me, I have Unconditional Love for you - because it takes both Unconditional Love and a higher morality to do that. I do still have a Soul in here the same as you do.


If you want to take the concept of 'do no harm' into the equation then by all means. BUT!!! If I don't do you any harm then no empathy for you and you don't care when David commits suicide. Whatcha gonna do, Miss H??



In the 'smaller picture' I get karmic brownie points because I've done you no harm. Hurrah! In the bigger picture, I've broken my contract with you so cosmic negative brownie points for that. You've broken your contract with David and you haven't saved him. and because of that he commits suicide with all of those negative brownie points for him. And he has to start over.


"Do not judge" is also one of the Christ Consciousness principles that is really not understood. The Universe is a reflection of you, and what you reflect out tells the Universe something about you. I like to inject a little humour because often these heavy subjects are too damned heavy and dry, and that's deliberately come out in this post. Not to everyone's taste granted, but it's a true reflection of me. Similarly the bad guys, believe it or not. With bad guys it's a reflection that they're 'missing something', they may not know any better or they're in pain and sometimes their behaviour is a cry for help - subconsciously they want you to so see that they're hurting. "Love thine enemy" means that you can respond with Love or at least acceptance instead of equal hate because if you do it just perpetuates the hateful energies.


While we're here, enjoying something means you're 'in tune' with your Karmic Obligations - the excitement is like a 'carrot'. Being a Mongolian soldier would have meant you were in a position to fulfil Karmic Obligations - otherwise you wouldn't have been there. Again, the stumbling block to understanding this is human morality rather than Spirituality.


The question to ask yourself is "What did I gain?" when you're trying to understand any of this. That's the reason you went through it, to gain something - learn the lessons, grow Spiritually etc....

Originally Posted by davidsun

Here's the 'other side' of 'the coin':

https://www.thedodo.com/videos/in-th...ee-she-rescued

(the ad just takes 12 secs to get through)

The stumbling block to all of this is not Spirituality, it's morality and mentality. One of the major issues I have with Spirituality is that it thinks the Universe spins on Spirituality, but that's just Spiritual spin. Spirituality is 'built' on the human framework - God made man, man made religion. With Kohlberg's Theory mainstream Spiritual morality seems to be around Stage II or III. Similarly with Michael Newton.


https://www.psychologynoteshq.com/kohlbergstheory/

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

It is pretty famous, it is what the movie ,"What Dreams May Come",
was based on.
You'll thank me!!!

If he doesn't thank you after seeing that movie, I'll have words with him. If we ever needed something that illustrates this thread well, that's the one.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'd take karma out of the picture completely because all this good/bad deeds stuff just confuses the issue. Karma is just judgement based on human morality, and pretty low-level morality at that

An explanation of karma from someone who quite obviously has no interest in understanding what karma actually is. I give you 2/10 for that analysis. A 1/10 response would be, "I've heard the word 'karma' before but I don't know what it is." But then to understand karma, you have to understand that morality is one the highest spiritual truths the human being can strive towards. And it sounds like you have the same distaste for that truth as you do for karma.