Authority

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

the thing about the bible is... even if you want to ignore the blatant comments about humility for whatever reason, jesus said service was the in thing. Not mastery.

Personally though I think being enslaved is the first step towards being free... while being free is the first step towards being enslaved. Go figure.

You dont know that a guy with a name that couldn't have existed until 1535AD at the earliest because the J was the last letter created and added to the alphabet in the mid 1500's actually said that and the scribe that was following him around to write all of this down heard what he said correctly.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

This is the Christian forum.
The Bible proves itself by it's wisdom, and prophesies which are fulfilled.
Those who assault it, for one, don't actually know it, they just think they do, and for another, have no foundation to stand upon.

They fulfill the Lord's parable about shifting sand, and loose, unstable.

My understanding is that this is a forum on spirituality as it relates to Christian beliefs, a place to discuss Christianity, which in theory, if not always apparent in practice, is said to be based on the life and teachings of Jesus. A forum differs from a pulpit, or even a church, in that it is a place for free and open discussion. A place where one should be able to profess one's beliefs and get feedback. A place where one should be able to air one's thoughts and doubts without fear of agitating the religious authorities. A crime that in other places and times could get one burned at the stake or nailed to a tree.
True there is much wisdom in the Bible, but there is a lot of other stuff in there as well, the apparent wisdom of which is not so readily visible to anyone but the most unquestioning and devout believers. Perhaps it is also wisdom, or perhaps not, but I think it is a shame more of those devout believers, when questioned, cannot often do more than just refer back to the bible to prove its own truths. Sometimes, when pressed on the thornier parts, those apparent contradictions and justifications of rather “ungodly” behaviors of God, they become agitated and tell people to go away; they only want to talk to true believers. I believe that Jesus sought to spread a message of love and tolerance. He walked among the lepers, forgave the prostitute, and dined with the tax collectors, and yet some Christians seem so eager to condemn and excommunicate any who dare question whether their orthodox version of his message is the one and only true one. How is it that the staunchest defenders of Christ, often seem to be the ones that miss the spirit of Jesus’s life and message the most?
There were sacred scriptures and exalted priests to defend them in Jesus’s day as well. Yet time and time again when he was confronted by these defenders of “God’s” word, he spoke plain and simple truths into the face of those powers. They did not like it back then any more than they like it today. When he flaunted their laws to heal the sick they threatened him and accused him of committing crimes. He terrified them because all of their power depended on keeping the people in fear of them, and in fear of what a vengeful and wrathful God of power and smite might do to them should they not obey what the religious authorities said. But Jesus was not afraid of them, even knowing what would happen to him, he told them straight to their faces, woe unto them for they did not bring people closer to God, instead they kept them away. They were the pretend guards at the supposed gates of heaven collecting a tax from those who would like to peek inside. It seems to me that what Jesus was telling those religious authorities of his day was that they had placed the foundation of their temple on shifting sand and shaky ground, stacking up words one upon another without paying attention to the spirit of what was being said, and that eventually a storm would come and wash it away, and not one stone would be left upon another.

[Morpheus]

Very well said Ketz!

So, you ought to retract your errant post, prior.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Who has/had the Authority to say that the Bible is from God and reveals God's truth? Why should I accept their Authority to make such claims about God?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

You dont know that a guy with a name that couldn't have existed until 1535AD at the earliest because the J was the last letter created and added to the alphabet in the mid 1500's actually said that and the scribe that was following him around to write all of this down heard what he said correctly.

i guess you aren't on god's side then? Because it takes a lot for a believer to believe God couldn't do something as simple as say words that make sense.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Very well said Ketz!

So, you ought to retract your errant post, prior.

I am confused. Explain how my post invalidates those questions.

Originally Posted by ketzer
Who has/had the Authority to say that the Bible is from God and reveals God's truth?
Why should I accept their Authority to make such claims about God?

Or perhaps you can take a wack at answering those questions.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

i guess you aren't on god's side then? Because it takes a lot for a believer to believe God couldn't do something as simple as say words that make sense.

That statement is a pathetic deflection to attempt to avoid the FACTS that I said previously.

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by ketzer

My understanding is that this is a forum on spirituality as it relates to Christian beliefs, a place to discuss Christianity, which in theory, if not always apparent in practice, is said to be based on the life and teachings of Jesus. A forum differs from a pulpit, or even a church, in that it is a place for free and open discussion. A place where one should be able to profess one's beliefs and get feedback. A place where one should be able to air one's thoughts and doubts without fear of agitating the religious authorities. A crime that in other places and times could get one burned at the stake or nailed to a tree.
True there is much wisdom in the Bible, but there is a lot of other stuff in there as well, the apparent wisdom of which is not so readily visible to anyone but the most unquestioning and devout believers. Perhaps it is also wisdom, or perhaps not, but I think it is a shame more of those devout believers, when questioned, cannot often do more than just refer back to the bible to prove its own truths. Sometimes, when pressed on the thornier parts, those apparent contradictions and justifications of rather “ungodly” behaviors of God, they become agitated and tell people to go away; they only want to talk to true believers. I believe that Jesus sought to spread a message of love and tolerance. He walked among the lepers, forgave the prostitute, and dined with the tax collectors, and yet some Christians seem so eager to condemn and excommunicate any who dare question whether their orthodox version of his message is the one and only true one. How is it that the staunchest defenders of Christ, often seem to be the ones that miss the spirit of Jesus’s life and message the most?
There were sacred scriptures and exalted priests to defend them in Jesus’s day as well. Yet time and time again when he was confronted by these defenders of “God’s” word, he spoke plain and simple truths into the face of those powers. They did not like it back then any more than they like it today. When he flaunted their laws to heal the sick they threatened him and accused him of committing crimes. He terrified them because all of their power depended on keeping the people in fear of them, and in fear of what a vengeful and wrathful God of power and smite might do to them should they not obey what the religious authorities said. But Jesus was not afraid of them, even knowing what would happen to him, he told them straight to their faces, woe unto them for they did not bring people closer to God, instead they kept them away. They were the pretend guards at the supposed gates of heaven collecting a tax from those who would like to peek inside. It seems to me that what Jesus was telling those religious authorities of his day was that they had placed the foundation of their temple on shifting sand and shaky ground, stacking up words one upon another without paying attention to the spirit of what was being said, and that eventually a storm would come and wash it away, and not one stone would be left upon another.

Brought a tear to my eye that. Well said.

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

Brought a tear to my eye that. Well said.

Sorry. Probably just eye fatigue, I do sometimes write rather long and windy posts.